"Direct flows": what a revealing way to present the gains - and stands the argument "This is a duplicate service between Bristol / Bath and London" on its head, lays it on a stretcher, and carries it out of the room.

Mark

 
and someone adds


No and yes - the overcrowding is from West Wiltshire into Bath and Bristol at present. The trains that terminate at Salisbury from Bristol are much less heavily loaded as they get further from Bristol and this is an opportunity to help even out loads. Likewise, the Salisbury to London services that start at Salisbury start quieter and are picking up people all the way. So the though trains extra passengers would be biased towards the quieter section of the line.

Having said that, we were promised 5 carriage trains as routine on the Cardiff to Portsmouth service preCovid but they typically run with just 3 carriages (sometimes 2 or 4, very occasionally 5) these days even though traffic levels are back to where they were. There will be an element of relief once the Cordoba (175) fleet is properly in service in Devon and Cornwall and allows some 158 units of the type pictured to be transferred up to Bristol - but this is NOT part of the timetable update request, and we are being careful to ask for something reasonable and achievable in its own right and under the guidelines of it being a timetable change.

 
In response to a number of follow ups on Faceplant saying "they're not going to give you more trains ...."

Read my lips - NO MORE TRAINS.  Sorry to shout, but I have read so many social media posts in the last fortnight telling me that asking GBR|SW for more trains in their timetable review is unlikely to be delivered.   WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR MORE TRAINS - we are asking for existing trains to be retimed and joined up to make a better network product. It seems I have not got this message across; we know this is a timetable review and not an investment plan.

Current:
Bristol to Salisbury - 12 stations = 66 direct station to station flows each way
Salisbury to Waterloo - 9 stations = 35 direct flows (not CLJ to WAT as CLJ is set down / pick up only)
Total - 101 direct flows

Proposed:
Bristol to Waterloo - 20 stations = 189 direct flows each way (still not between CLJ and WAT)

I grant you that many flows (both current and future) are thin but look at some of the direct service gains:
* Basingstoke - that hidden hive of industry half way to London - gets direct Bath and Bristol trains
* Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon get direct trains to London
* Oldfield Park gets trains to Clapham Junction and Waterloo - great for student population from south of The Thames

It stikes me that this change of timetables is a once-in-a-decade opportunity to join things up into a network for the passengers, and bring us the gain from nationalisation as we move away from competitive fiefdoms which caused friction and poor service provision across regional territories.  A win-win chance.

Carla Denya, Dan Norris, Wera Hobhouse, Anna Sabine, Brian Mathew, Andrew Murrison, Caroline Noakes, Kit Malthouse, Luke Murphy, Will Forster, Marsha De Cordova and Florence Eshalomi - please take note; this will provide residents and businesses around stations in YOUR constituency with better travel options.

Pictures - current express Sprinter trains along the line.  Different paint jobs, maybe

 
Looking to the pre-2021 timetable, the 19:20 from Waterloo saw the train split at Salisbury, the front portion went off out West and the rear portion headed for Bristol and then returned to Salisbury.

2026, and its nearest equivalent in the timetable splits at Salisbury, the front portion heads for the likes of Yeovil Junction and the rear portion heads for the depot for the night, so while there's still the issue of train staff and route knowledge Westbury to Bristol and back, for that service at least there's no need to be coupling 159s and 158s. Also, I believe on its late evening return from Bristol to Salisbury that train wasn't exactly carrying fresh air. Anecdotally, the only time I saw it at Bath Spa it was around 80% full. In the 2026 timetable, is there even an equivalent service?

Mark

 

That's reasonable. I was thinking that a move to reinstate this service could really do with backing from the organisations that would benefit. For starters, that's further and higher education. Universities promote sustainable travel and their marketing departments certainly keep tabs on the 'catchment areas' they serve. They shouldn't be averse to backing a move to reintroduce through services via Salisbury if its something that would directly benefit their students and also their bottom line.

Perhaps such organisations should task a member of staff to contribute to SWR's timetable consultation, but they can also use their links with local politicians and MPs. It would be good to provide information on the lines of communication they should pursue on this. WWRG members may be able to say what would be most effective. The Scottish Borders Railway campaign really took off when people started discussing at the hairdressers, so to speak - out in the community and among people who wouldn't think of themselves as 'Rail campaigners'. Wiltshire's trains to Waterloo may already be in that fortunate position.

Mark

 

I don't believe we have such a class - we are a USER group - but we would love to have you as a member, Mark.   On the other way round, WWRUG *is* a member of organisations which have corporate memberships.

 
Apart from being mortified that I've not joined, I wonder if the WWRUG  has a category of membership for the likes of organisations. A 'Corporate' class of membership as it were..

Mark

 

Sound bites shared for members from the BBC for critical review and further comment:
Mayor of Bradford-on-Avon at  https://www.passenger.chat/lib/SBBBCWilts090726.wav
Myself as a committee member of WWRG at  https://www.passenger.chat/lib/GJEBBCWilts090726.wav

 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8rdj8x0k9o

 

I should have a link to the interviews with the Mayor of Bradford-on-Avon and the Committee member of WWRUG who spoke within the next 24 hours.

 

[Edit] Touched on at 7:00, 8:00 and 9:00am in the news updates, and then at 8:08am, interviews including with Grahame. Other transport issues covered, an unpleasant disruption on the A36 and a residents vs I think Highways Agency meeting on the issues with the A303 given the recent cancellation of the 'Enhancement'.

This probably won't be a direct link, you'll need the 9th July programme, available for a month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live/bbc_radio_wiltshire

Mark

 

Might explain why the painters were out on the 22nd giving the station another dose of chocolate and cream.

 

Thanks, Mark.  I have edited my original post to headline that URL, and posted onto the West Wiltshire Rail User Group on Facebook where it is a pinned / featured article - see https://www.facebook.com/groups/wwrug/

 
I have been asked to describe this suggestion on BBC Radio Wiltshire just after 08:00 tomorrow, 9.7.2026

 
In case someone lands on this thread and is looking for the consultation, here's a link.

Mark

https://www.southwesterntimetable.com/

 
To emphasise something, that full-and-standing photo is from the depths of February 2008 and on a Sunday, but I could have taken a similar one today.

Mark

 

Courtesy of the full-and-standing 10:36 from Bath Spa to Portsmouth, I made it to Bradford on Avon for this photoshoot. On arriving, there'd been a bit of a kerfuffle as an acacia tree by the down platform ramped entrance had just shed a branch, blocking the ramp. John, being a station volunteer there, was already carting the arisings away but the thick end was still attached to the tree - the station booking staff person was organising this.

Various trains called, for the most part full or full and standing as mine had been. This allowed me to reflect on a previous visit - also with a bike - in February 2008 - a Sunday, 18 years back, not remotely peak season... and that winter train pulling in full and standing with no chance of getting me on it, let alone a bike.

Once he was off the vegetation clearance task, it was most useful listening to John's very sound take on the potential Bristol - Waterloo trains, as the arrival of an open access bid has turned this into a bit of a 'Situation'. Not sure if this take has been fully written up on the forum. I'm sure it will be finding its way on to the WWRUG web site.

Bradford on Avon's mayor arrived and was apprised of 'The situation' and then MP Brian Mathew made it across to the station from a Saturday morning surgery - and was able to receive his helping of 'The situation' in written form as John had copies of a press release with him.

Fittingly we met within sight of the departure indicator, showing that the oft-cancelled Salisbury service was just that - cancelled.

After that, we set off on our various ways. I'd half intended to return on the train but seeing I had a bike with me and the station's other platform's ramp was still in the possession of an acacia tree, and most of the trains sighted that morning had been very full and standing, the towpath and the tunnels won out.

Mark

 
The Grand Central Waterloo-Bristol rumour's now the subject of an article in Rail magazine. (Subscription required).

Mark

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/grand-central-planning-new-london-routes-from-manchester-and-bristol

 
This one did not fit neatly into any of our line boards - which rather confirms that it would be a useful new service.

There's. a photocall from our MP (Brian Mathew) and the mayor of Bradford-on-Avon (Sam Blackwell) who asks

 
South Western Railway (Or is that now Great British Railways | South Western) are re-doing their whole timetable for December 2027 and are looking for inputs from knowledgable parties (Stakeholders) to help inform them.

EDIT to add - Input to SWR via https://www.southwesterntimetable.com/ please!

1. One of their (SWR / GBR|SW) current services runs from Salisbury to Waterloo Station in London, with calls / onward connections at Clapham Junction, Waterloo and Woking for trains to destinations in South London, Kent, Surrey and East Sussex

2. Great Western Railway (to become Great British Railways | Great Western in December) now run services on the "Bristol Metro" from Bristol as far as Salisbury, serving Bristol, Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge, Westbury, Dilton Marsh, and Warminster along the way.

3. The SWR services are run using class 158 (and 159) trains, and the GWR services often are class 158 - they are run from a pool of class 158, 165 and 166 trains. SWR terminate in Salisbury's platforms from the east, and GWR services terminate - often at the same platforms - from the West.

4. My "Rumour Mill" suggests that Grand Central (an Arriva owned Open Access operator) have applied for rights to run a Waterloo, Salisbury, Warminster, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford on Avon, Bath Spa, Bristol Temple Meads service.  Which rather confirms a view in the industry that there is a demand for such a service worth backing up by serious investment, and that (under Open Access license terms) it is not "primarily abstractive" of traffic of other services, and that there is capacity for it.

5. The distance between London Waterloo and London Paddington where current Bristol and Bath to London services go is about 4 miles (6.4 km), putting them into different walking and cycling catchments.  London is a huge city and onward public transport from both is good, but underground and bus are daunting / difficult for many occasional passengers.

6. Suggestion - why not join up the Bristol -> Salisbury and the Salisbury -> Waterloo service from December 2027? Trains arriving in Salisbury from the west already join on to extra carriages before they continue to London, and 2 or 3 carriage trains of class 158/159 from Bristol (there are already a couple from Westbury) could do that, up as far as 8 or 9 carriage trains onwards

*** To be noted amongst the major benefits:
* A whole raft of popular new / restored service for which there is significant identified demand.
* Economic benefit of through London services from Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bradford-on-Avon, Trowbridge and Dilton Marsh
* Operational improvement - efficiency at Salisbury
* An easy early win for Great British Railways

*** Previous services along the length of this corridor

Through services on this route ran preCovid and I summarised why they should remain - to no immediate avail - documented at https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/16-reasons-continue-through-trains-london-graham-ellis/ and http://waterloo.savethetrain.org.uk (link is an old one - http not https!). Here are some updated / comments on issues at the time

* We had two operators under commercial contract from Bristol and Bath to London, and our dominant operator to Paddington wanted rid of the competition which undercut them, all be it with a less frequent and slower service.  They would now be complementary services

* As SWR and GWR were separate organisations, each needed their own drivers and route knowledge for the Bristol service for SWR crews was hard and expensive to maintain.  Under GBR, all staff are under the same banner and would be changed along the way.

* Train paths were being cleared for MetroWest between Bristol and Bath (Bathampton). Fair enough - those paths have been taken up by the MetroWest service which is the very service we are asking to link on to Waterloo. No problem any more

* HMG were looking to save money by thinning out services in the postCovid era.  But we are back up to 1.83 billion journeys a year (to March 2026) versus 0.99 billion journeys which was the latest data when the previous service was cut.  The strongest regrowth, you will note, is in the occasional traveller / leisure / personal business (such as students to/from Uni) markets which are the very market that this service will address.