I tend to use National Rail for checking for delays etc., and on the odd occasion I've tried RTT I've found it's not showing the problems being reported by the National Rail app. Like on Monday, while NR showed the diversion via Bristol Parkway and a delay, RTT didn't.

So while RTT is great for history, I'm sticking with NR for predictions.

 
I don't disagree with the message, my point was as orange on cream I didn't spot it.   It was only when I went to quote the message and it was black on white that I saw it.

 

My naughty little postscript in orange was supposed to point out that [they/we] are treating the symptoms and not the cause / disease - easing the pain when what is needed is action to fix the causes as far as possible. 

My guesstimate is that 75% of the problems are fixable at source. Whilst that would cost money to do, it would also bring about a huge saving on the work stress of those who are trying to ease the pain, a big saving on delay/repay, and a boost to confidence in the system so that people who are wary about using the train because of its unreliability would (re)turn to rail.

I am disappointed that these fixings at source have not been done - it almost defies logic that they have not. I do have indications that much background work has been done so "they" know what to do.  Perhaps they are waiting for GBR for it to be a flagship policy of improvements once the government takes over the TOCs? 

 

Thanks so much for that Bob - I have to agree that leaving it to the last minute is NOT the way to go.  And indeed the very good and often successful work of those involved to getting a service back, which is appreciated, leads to them being criticised for a false "the xx:xx train is cancelled" but it ends up running.   The very last thing  I would want encourage is a mentality that says "once a cancellation is broadcast, it is never re-instated".

I guess that a sizeable minority of cancellations are reversed - if only there was a tag line that could be added "but we are still trying to find a way of running it"; my understanding is that's a systemic problem - the options available don't include that ...


Again - a systemic option.   Journeycheck assumes once delayed, always delayed.  It is often "hilariously" wrong on certain trains such as the sleeper ... and the very train in question in this thread - the 05:11 from Gloucester to Southampton can be as much as 20 minutes late as it passes Standish Junction, projected as 08:30 rather than 08:09 into Southampton and yet arrive there on time.   Real Time Trains makes rather better predictions, by various methods like taking the time that trains sit at intermediate stations (Swindon, Salisbury and a little at Westbury on the 05:11) and trimming then back as it predicts.  In reality, once a train is significantly delayed, it comes down to a complex mesh of factors such as platform availability at Westbury which can add significantly to the delay, together with factors already mentioned like timetabled intermediate dwells, and it's pretty unpredictable by current algorithms as to whether the delay is recovered, maintained, or gets worse.

 
Until just now when I went to quote Graham's message did I spot his postscript about solving the root cause - clearly (pardon the pun) my eyesight isn't up to seeing that colour against the background.

 
Yeah I appreciate that. As Graham says it would better/great if they fixed the root cause.

Thanks - I can understand that, although I'm fairly sure that it was showing as 'on time' at least for a short time on the National Rail app when the route included Bristol Parkway (which I assume corresponds to 'went off its booked route' - might have misunderstood).

 
I have spent a bit of time trying to find the specifics of the cancellation and reinstatement of these services without success.

However it seems GWR are in a bit of a no win situation when it comes to cases like this.   When the services were cancelled it was in the earnest belief that they would not run.   They could have delayed the announcement but then run the risk of being criticised for making it even more short notice.  Control and the rosters staff are eternal optimists and always hope they can pull something out of the hat and run a service.  So work continues behind the scenes to rescue a service or reduce a shortform until they run out of all options.   If they waited until they reached that point there would be a rash of last minute cancellations/alterations.   The current situation is not ideal, but personally if there are going to be cancellations I'd rather know as early as possible, even if it is later reinstated.

As for this morning's service from Gloucester, the confusing messages are down to the way the automated system works.  Once it went off its booked route at Standish Junction the system lost it and so defaulted to delayed.   It was only when it approached Swindon and picked up its planned route that the system started to update again.

 

Part of my frustration is that the information systems have just green and red lights.  I know that in the end it runs or it doesn't, but a "This train may be cancelled" or "this train may be delayed" warning with "please check back in an hour" might do wonders.




Better still - have enough of the right people available at the might time in the right place and don't have to cancel, or say you're cancelling, so many trains!

 
True, although that's 6.5 hours in the future so perhaps it allows them a bit more freedom.

Not like this morning's early Gloucester-Southampton (which I mentioned above - apologies for the repetition). I normally leave the house at ~6:05 to catch the 6:32 Melksham departure, and at that time it was showing as 'delayed' (after previously being 'on time', and 'delayed' before that). So I went from the front door back to my room and got my laptop out to start working, planning on catching one of the later services.

Then at ~6:15 I refreshed the web page and it had gone back to 'on time' Laptop back in rucksack, dash downstairs and jog most of the 1.6 miles to the station. Where it was now showing as 15 minutes late 

 


FRUSTRATION ... I know that things have to be moved around during the day sometimes, but flagging up trains as cancelled, letting people know that they won't be able to get home anything like as easily as normal ... and then saying "just kidding" or "we didn't really mean that" is enough to put people off using the train!

 
Twenty minutes later - reinstated.

 
.

 
...hence lines closed between Gloucester and Swindon. Early Gloucester-Southampton diverted to Bristol Parkway, and was initially showing as on time at Swindon. Then it changed to delayed. Then it was back on time, so I had to jog to Melksham. Now it's delayed by 15 mins.

Report I saw earlier said lines were expected to be closed until 9:00.

EDIT sorry didn't see Graham's post (on phone).

 
Report of a woman seen on Stroud viaduct. 

 
This feels like a repeat ...


But clearly something going on ...

 


So that's both the 18:44 and the 20:12 from Swindon to Westbury cancelled - service gap from 17:35 to 22:30.  How about marrying up the working trains with the working crew?

 
The choice of reason "Trespassers on the railway" wasn't, I think, the best choice in this case (I accept that the person adding details to the system may not have been aware of the incident's details)

I wondered why there was no train through Stroud until 15:13. It turns out that there was a main road closure also, connected with what the police referred to as a "concern for welfare incident" involving one male.

 

 

 

Sadly, yes, Transwilts ... again ... that's the train that runs via Swindon

 
17:50 Gloucester - Salisbury "cancelled because of more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time"

(Sorry - does this count as TransWilts?)

 
21:35 Swindon to Westbury due 22:52

An additional bus service has been planned to operate as shown 21:35 Swindon to Westbury due 22:52.

 
17:44 Swindon to Salisbury due 18:55
17:44 Swindon to Salisbury due 18:55 will be terminated at Westbury.

It will no longer call at Warminster and Salisbury.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 
That looks like 5 out of the 7 round trips cancelled ... wasn't someone telling us just in the last 24 hours that there IS no crew shortage - just that not enough crew know the routes needed.   

I gave up on the train yesterday - the intent was Melk (in Austria) to Melksham.  Got as far as Bath Spa ...

 
08:06 Warminster to Swindon due 08:58
08:06 Warminster to Swindon due 08:58 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

09:08 Swindon to Westbury due 09:49
09:08 Swindon to Westbury due 09:49 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

10:38 Weymouth to Swindon due 12:57
10:38 Weymouth to Swindon due 12:57 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Trowbridge, Melksham, Chippenham and Swindon.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

10:41 Westbury to Swindon due 11:24
10:41 Westbury to Swindon due 11:24 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

11:32 Swindon to Weymouth due 13:45
11:32 Swindon to Weymouth due 13:45 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

13:32 Swindon to Weymouth due 15:45
13:32 Swindon to Weymouth due 15:45 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

14:05 Frome to Swindon due 14:58
14:05 Frome to Swindon due 14:58 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

15:44 Swindon to Frome due 16:38
15:44 Swindon to Frome due 16:38 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

20:38 Westbury to Swindon due 21:23
20:38 Westbury to Swindon due 21:23 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

21:34 Swindon to Westbury due 22:16
21:34 Swindon to Westbury due 22:16 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 

 
The last round trip has now, just, been reinstated. 

 
It was reinstated at 15:35.   However now the 21:16 from Westbury and the 22:31 from Swindon have both been cancelled.

 
Looks ok at the moment - can I assume it's been reinstated?
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/live-trains/departures/chippenham/melksham/

 

 

I stand corrected.


The only cancellations in the region - notable that alternative transport is actually flagged up (rare but not unheard of) and the delay stated is 43 minutes.

Passengers onwards toward Weymouth hoping to connect with the 18:50 off Westbury  to Frome will have to wait for the 19:45 - a 55 minute late arrival - and for Weymouth the next train isn't until 21:40 as far as I can see

The Journey Planner IS offering you the train-bus combo at £9.80 single Swindon to Westbury and also offering a 17:22 getting to Westbury at 18:34 which will connect with the 18:50 onwards - 13 minutes earlier from Swindon, a useful alternative, and getting there 15 minutes after the cancelled train would have done - but they are pricing a £19.80 - that's right, £10 more.  Whatever happened to the promise that if a train via Melksham was cancelled and passengers had to travel via Bath that the via Melksham fare would be honoured?. It feels like an immoral thing to do to commit to providing a train service, cancel it, and then ask people to pay more for the journey because of your failure to deliver.

 
16:47 Bristol-Warminster I was going to take to get off at Bath, instead of the 17:00 Paddington getting off at Chippenham, has also been cancelled. That's after my train up from Trowbridge this morning was cancelled due to the tree.

At least the 7:21 Melksham-Chippenham ran on time, so shouldn't complain.

 
16:23 Westbury to Swindon due 17:06
16:23 Westbury to Swindon due 17:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

17:35 Swindon to Westbury due 18:19
17:35 Swindon to Westbury due 18:19 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 
16:43 Frome to Swindon due 17:34
16:43 Frome to Swindon due 17:34 will be reinstated.
It will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Trowbridge, Melksham, Chippenham and Swindon.
This is due to the train conductor being taken ill

17:44 Swindon to Salisbury due 18:55
17:44 Swindon to Salisbury due 18:55 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 

Fair comment. And how many of the potential passengers for that service would have been those travelling from Swindon to Westbury, proportionately?

I don't know: how busy is that remaining service between Westbury and Weymouth on a Sunday, during a heatwave? 

CfN.

 


Not really "reinstated".   Still cancelled as far as the TYransWilts line is concerned.

 

There used to be two trains each way in the middle of Saturday afternoon and GWR were having trouble crewing them both.  I went public in support of cutting out one of the two in order to make the system and remaining train robust.   Sad that they can't even find crew for the remaining mid-afternoon train.  Do I feel mislead and shortchanged?  Is that a reasonable feeling in the circumstances??

 

 

False alarm?  Pretty well on time all the way and no delay off Swindon.

 

And

 

06:35 Salisbury to Worcester Foregate Street due 09:47
06:35 Salisbury to Worcester Foregate Street due 09:47 has been cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

 

 

 

 
The sad thing is that it's a day when services DO run to schedule that's so rare it takes us by surprise.

 
Performances like yesterday's will happen but should be so rare they take us by surprise.  As something that happens all too often, and digging into the data the cancellations are again all "rail industry" rather than "act of God" attributable, this is not marketable to new and nervous users.  The risk of mucking up people's plans to the extent of having them put off the railway for a long time to come is just too high.



On a service that was scheduled to run every 20 minutes, alternate cancellations may not be an issue that seriously damage people's whole day / plans.  On a service that runs every 120 minutes, it renders what's left as unfit for the purpose of getting people around and if we can't fix it, why/should we bother?

 

 

I couldn't see any other reason ... and it was planned in well ahead and wasn't an "oops - we've no staff or train" on the morning!

 

I am not sure if that was the case.   The up train from Warminster is usually timed to be on the single line between 08:26 and 08:38.    Today the Penzance train was slightly early and was on the line between 09:02 and 09:14.

The return service from Swindon is usually between Thingley and Bradford Junctions from 09:27 and 09:38.

 

 
Quoting from Heart of Wessex ...


On the TransWilts service, don't forget that the first round trip was a rail replacement bus this morning - not really a replacement but a substitution by something different and inferior.

A lot of TransWilts southbound in the morning use it for onward connections which leave Westbury (today) at ...
09:32 and 09:57 (yes, 2 at 25 minutes apart) for Weymouth
09:37 for London
09:54 for Penzance
10:02 for Portsmouth
and these would normally offer connections off the train from Swindon.   Guess what - the bus arrives at Westbury at 10:14 and that breaks all of these connections.   Only 2 other GWR trains are timetabled to leave Westbury before 11:00 and could be described as connection - 10:40 to London (by Real Time Trains tells me it's not expected until 11:10)  and a train at 10:41 which - oh dear - heads up to Swindon which is where the direction the bus came in from in the first place!

 

And for today ... the first train is replace by a bus because, as far as I can tell, the line is needed to run a more important West Country express that calls at Westbury, with engineering works closing the normal line through Pewsey.   Then ...

 

Wonderful end to a day trip

 
22:12 Swindon to Westbury due 22:55
22:12 Swindon to Westbury due 22:55 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault with the signalling system.

Sun, 15 June 13:32 Swindon to Weymouth due 15:45
15/06/25 13:32 Swindon to Weymouth due 15:45 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 

Perhaps a good place to log my two journeys Swindon to Melksham

Yesterday at 22:31 (Friday 13th) from Swindon
18 passengers on train into Melksham. where 10 got off and 3 on. [21/13]

Today at 15:14 from Swindon
36 passenger on train into Melksham, where 18 got off and 2 got on.  [38/20]

 

 

The signaller at Westbury controls the single line through Melksham. In order to route a down train from Thingley Junction towards Bradford Junction, the signaller on the TVSC Swindon workstation has to request the slot from their counterpart at Westbury. If the slot is not requested or given in good time, the Automatic Route Setting will set the route up only as far as the signal before the Thingley crossovers. This is to ensure that the junction is not blocked if there was to be a train coming up from Bradford Junction first.

 

Nothing obvious on Real Time Trains ... the other possibility that I looked at was the possibility of something ahead of it that had to clear Bradford Junction before you could proceed, but that was NOT showing on RTT.

Signalling experts may be able to help me - but I think that the train is passed from Didcot to Westbury sit passes along the line and signallers at both ends have to co-operate to pass trains.  I get the impression that the paths / this is occasionally done very late.

 
...and the 17:35 Swindon-Westbury left Chippenham on time, but then stopped for about 5 mins somewhere before Thingley, due to a red signal according to the train manager. Wasn't obvious why; I assumed something had got delayed coming from Melksham in the opposite direction on the single track we were waiting to turn into, but nothing came past us. Strange.

 

 
Now both re-instated.

 

 

 

 
A major signalling failure at BRI means nothing moving until around 1000

 

You may wonder why I am quoting the Basingstoke service too - which is cancelled "due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time".   That's because these are the ONLY two trains across the whole of the GWR area which are cancelled at short notice this morning.  It is not unusual to see this sort of metric, where a very high proportion of cancellations are on our little line - from our 14 services out of around 2,000 that GWR should run.

Oh - and


So that's a cancellation in all but name ...

2/14 is a 14.5% cancellation rate ...

 
17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury due 20:06
17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury due 20:06 will no longer call at Chippenham, Trowbridge and Dilton Marsh.
It will be starting late from Gloucester.
This is due to trespassers on the railway earlier today.

 

It ran last night - we was on it - 3 carriage train, 10 in our carriage (so guessing around 30 in the train), 8 off and perhaps 2 or 3 on at Melksham (we were slow getting off so I may have missed 1 or 2. So that is  [32/10] which is not bad going for one of the very quietest trains of the day. 

This is the descendant of the 19:35 service from the bad old decade of "2 trains a day - too early and too late" when we were a line without a train - borrowing one from another line to run when it really wasn't much use there (either) ... and in those days we would have been lucky to see 5 people using the train.  How well we have come forward, even allowing for the flakiness and the 30 minute later running, timed (I suspect) to allow for the personal needs break of the crew arriving from Gloucester rather than to connect with the service from Salisbury of provide an evenly spaced service.

And this morning ...

 

but ... another two cancellation.  Not exactly customer friendly, is it?

 

With the power to the signalling at Newbury restored, the latter pair above have now been re-instated.

 

Something looked odd here ... then I found it ... the fault isn't even on our line ...

 

 

Just noticed ...


So is that 2 trains with faults at Westbury this morning, or a fault on the train planned to run to Weymouth and then a decision to use the one planned for the TransWilts service for the Weymouth instead?

 

 

1 cheer not 3. Not "reinstated" as far as passengers wishing to join at Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham or Trowbridge are concerned ...

Somewhat better news (2 cheers not 3) that the following return trip is no longer on the cancellation report, so id probably re-instated throughout.

 

 

And six hours later ... the almost inevitable cancellation of the train in the return direction

 

I guess it does.  Problem is ... railways don't run on paper ... they run on people, and engineering, and trains and rails, all of which have less continuous availability than a sheet of paper which remains a miracle that can be written on and still read years later.

 

---

Time flies - it's been two weeks not one, hasn't it, ChrisB?   And I fell for that without doing a fact check ... I have not looked back at the first week after the changes; that record commented on is for the second week as they should be bedding in.

 

Almost all depots have lost routes with the May timetable. I guess it works on paper. Believe Oxford are the odd ones out who’ve actually gained a new route.

 

So as of last night it was 50% of the days since the change that the peak evening train was declared cancelled then re-instated.  Unclever - very unclever.

Let's hope that THIS crew shortage issue (or the way of reporting it in a way that scares the customers away) is shortlived - teething troubles.  Sadly, I am not holding my breath as prior experience of staff shortages is that they go on. And on. And on.

 
17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury due 20:06
17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury due 20:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

20:06 Westbury to Cheltenham Spa due 22:06
20:06 Westbury to Cheltenham Spa due 22:06 will be started from Swindon.
It will no longer call at Westbury, Trowbridge, Melksham and Chippenham.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 

The lunchtime train is still booked with an Exeter guard who arrives on the London to Exeter service.  The 1623 Westbury to Swindon and 1735 Swindon to Westbury services are now booked to have a driver who travels up from Exeter! I think Westbury have covered it (when possible) every time it has run since the timetable change though.

The evening 1750 Gloucester to Salisbury service is now booked from Swindon for a driver from Reading depot who is then booked to bring back the 2006 Westbury to Cheltenham service as far as Swindon.

 
The change only happened last weekend!

 
Explains why Weymouth trains often end up terminating at Westbury in both directions if Bristol drivers no longer sign the route down to Weymouth. Might be good for operators but not good for passengers.

 

There are ... times ... I wish I had provided an "amazed" button answer as well as a "like" button. If you have understood correctly (and I have no reason to doubt it) it looks to be rather backward step in terms of providing a reliable service, doesn't it?

Has the new timetable change sorted out the lunchtime problem where a crew arriving off the semi-fast London to Exeter service do a round trip to Swindon ... notorious for being cancelled, turned at Chippenham or delayed if anything goes wrong (does it ever?) between London and Reading,  delaying the Exeter.

 
I understand that Gloucester drivers have had Melksham work removed with the change of timetable. Along with Bristol drivers losing Weymouth, it would appear Westbury depot are too thin to cover all the gaps.

 

20:06 Westbury to Swindon due 21:21
An additional bus service has been planned to operate as shown 20:06 Westbury to Swindon due 21:21.

Additional Information
Four people carriers from Bath Taxis. Before getting in any taxi vehicle please check with the driver that they are working on behalf of GWR, the driver should not ask for payment.

 

And now cancelled throughout ... no real difference on the TransWilts section where it was cancelled anyway!

 

It is a "joke" ... a humeourless joke ... today. Goodness knows what has been cancelled and what has been re-instated and what ends up running in the end.    It  may feel OK to the folks who run the trains to chop and change during the day depending on staff availability - after all, a driver coming in to work at X O'clock doesn't need to know where he's going to be until a few minutes before.   However, for passengers (customers) rather more planning is needed, especially on services which are infrequent in the first place.  Perhaps more thought should be given to customers and the effect on them of all these "will-it, won't-it" flip-flops.

 
Just looking at options for my usual commute home Bristol-Melksham (on the National Rail website) and of 9 options between 13:00 and 19:25, 4 are currently showing as "This service is cancelled". 2 cancellations are for the Chippenham-Melksham leg, 2 for Trowbridge-Melksham.

 
The 16:23 from Westbury and the 17:35 from Swindon now re-instated.

However

 
Depressing ... and it feels it's getting even worse again.

Gap at Melksham ...
12:32 to 18:53 northbound
13:39 to 20:38 southbound
... and that's for a town of around 25,000 where an appropriate service would be running hourly each way; the timetable is thinner (just one every 2 hours) and the sort of thing being offered today has six hour gaps. Sadly, this is not unusual - it's ongoing.   The trains MAY end up being re-instated later but that's cold comfort to people who need to have their days planned. 

Things WILL go wrong occasionally ... but this is an ongoing problem and it is NOT occasional. It's difficult to see anything being done to provide a reliable service ... words are spoken, actions being taken explained and promised and there are even good patches for a while with it running a bit better, but it falls over again. Sad.

 
14:18 Westbury to Swindon due 15:00
14:18 Westbury to Swindon due 15:00 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew

15:15 Swindon to Westbury due 15:59
15:15 Swindon to Westbury due 15:59 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew

16:23 Westbury to Swindon due 17:06
16:23 Westbury to Swindon due 17:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

17:35 Swindon to Westbury due 18:19
17:35 Swindon to Westbury due 18:19 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury due 20:06
17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury due 20:06 will be terminated at Swindon.
It will no longer call at Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Dilton Marsh, Warminster and Salisbury.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 

Followed, as sure as night follows day, by

 
21:16 Westbury to Swindon due 21:58
21:16 Westbury to Swindon due 21:58 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 

Both now re-instated.

 
...and if I search for Bristol Temple Meads - Melksham on the National Rail app it also shows the earlier 1545 option as cancelled as well, although I can't be bothered to check which of the 2 trains on that route aren't running.

 

That would have been the last leg of my commute home. Looks like another £3 on the buses