Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:25, 19th November 2024 |
ChrisB:
I try to merge topics where they are specific to one particular location, or service - in the interests of clarity / continuity.
Indeed, I'm looking at this whole 'Scilly' subject, as it's been the subject of many posts, in several different topics.
Surely it would be helpful for our readers to be able to access all of that information in just one definitive topic?
CfN.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 21:12, 19th November 2024 |
From Business Live, via MSN
Harland & Wolff's failed Scilly Ferries venture left £3m in debt before collapse
Harland & Wolff's ill-fated venture into the ferry service sector, Scilly Ferries, amassed debts of £3m before succumbing to administration earlier this year, according to recent disclosures in official filings.
In a bold move by the former management of the shipyard renowned for building the Titanic, Scilly Ferries was established despite setbacks including financial turmoil and a delayed launch, ultimately ceasing operations without completing a single trip, as reported by City AM.
The ambition shown by Harland surprised industry observers since the company ventured into an unfamiliar ferry operating domain and had previously been unsuccessful in obtaining the contract to revamp the ageing Scillonian III service connecting the Scilly Isles with the mainland.
Newly released documents at Companies House have now confirmed that Scilly Ferries was significantly indebted to creditors totalling more than £3m at the point of its collapse. This comes on top of earlier reports exposing that the parent company, Harland & Wolff, owed a staggering sum exceeding £160m as it entered administration.
Back in May, amid postponements to Scilly Ferries highly anticipated summer inauguration, Harland & Wolff arranged for a helicopter service to mitigate inconvenience for customers left stranded by the delay, as City AM reports have indicated.
Detailed in the records is the revelation that Starspeed Limited, holding a five-year contract from 2022 to conduct air transportation between Penzance heliport and the Scilly Isles, had an outstanding claim of £71,016 against Harland at the time of its financial demise.
During that turbulent period, John Wood, the then-chief executive at Harland, disclosed in May that discussions were in progress with various local operators to forge "secure alternative arrangements" catering to those who had bookings with Scilly Ferries.
Passengers took to social media to voice their frustrations about last-minute changes and lacklustre communication regarding their planned long-distance travels, while some expressed excitement at the unexpected opportunity of a helicopter ride.
Starspeed has remained silent, not providing any comments when approached.
The lavish spending has sparked further scrutiny over financial decisions leading up to Harland's second fall into administration within five years.
When City AM reached out for a statement, Wood implied that inquiries should be "better directed at the directors that took over the business."
He referenced his records, noting that the choice to halt [alternative] operations likely resulted in a loss of at least £6m in revenue for the initial season, discussing the ferry service.
Wood claimed that the venture was projected to reach break-even in its inaugural year and that helicopter flights were factored into the budget due to anticipated repeat business from Starspeed during the summer months, "when helicopters couldn't fly due to fog."
Amidst the turmoil and under new leadership, the company initiated an internal investigation into the mismanagement of over £25m by its previous executives, which appeared to have provided "little or no financial or corporate benefit."
According to reports from Irish News, other creditors include the Labour party and the Labour-affiliated think tank, Progressive Britain, with debts of £18,000 and £12,000 respectively.
Over two months since entering administration, Harland & Wolff now appears to be on the brink of a rescue deal with Spanish state-owned shipbuilder Navantia, a move that could potentially safeguard around 1,000 jobs.
Harland & Wolff did not respond to a request for comment.
Harland & Wolff's ill-fated venture into the ferry service sector, Scilly Ferries, amassed debts of £3m before succumbing to administration earlier this year, according to recent disclosures in official filings.
In a bold move by the former management of the shipyard renowned for building the Titanic, Scilly Ferries was established despite setbacks including financial turmoil and a delayed launch, ultimately ceasing operations without completing a single trip, as reported by City AM.
The ambition shown by Harland surprised industry observers since the company ventured into an unfamiliar ferry operating domain and had previously been unsuccessful in obtaining the contract to revamp the ageing Scillonian III service connecting the Scilly Isles with the mainland.
Newly released documents at Companies House have now confirmed that Scilly Ferries was significantly indebted to creditors totalling more than £3m at the point of its collapse. This comes on top of earlier reports exposing that the parent company, Harland & Wolff, owed a staggering sum exceeding £160m as it entered administration.
Back in May, amid postponements to Scilly Ferries highly anticipated summer inauguration, Harland & Wolff arranged for a helicopter service to mitigate inconvenience for customers left stranded by the delay, as City AM reports have indicated.
Detailed in the records is the revelation that Starspeed Limited, holding a five-year contract from 2022 to conduct air transportation between Penzance heliport and the Scilly Isles, had an outstanding claim of £71,016 against Harland at the time of its financial demise.
During that turbulent period, John Wood, the then-chief executive at Harland, disclosed in May that discussions were in progress with various local operators to forge "secure alternative arrangements" catering to those who had bookings with Scilly Ferries.
Passengers took to social media to voice their frustrations about last-minute changes and lacklustre communication regarding their planned long-distance travels, while some expressed excitement at the unexpected opportunity of a helicopter ride.
Starspeed has remained silent, not providing any comments when approached.
The lavish spending has sparked further scrutiny over financial decisions leading up to Harland's second fall into administration within five years.
When City AM reached out for a statement, Wood implied that inquiries should be "better directed at the directors that took over the business."
He referenced his records, noting that the choice to halt [alternative] operations likely resulted in a loss of at least £6m in revenue for the initial season, discussing the ferry service.
Wood claimed that the venture was projected to reach break-even in its inaugural year and that helicopter flights were factored into the budget due to anticipated repeat business from Starspeed during the summer months, "when helicopters couldn't fly due to fog."
Amidst the turmoil and under new leadership, the company initiated an internal investigation into the mismanagement of over £25m by its previous executives, which appeared to have provided "little or no financial or corporate benefit."
According to reports from Irish News, other creditors include the Labour party and the Labour-affiliated think tank, Progressive Britain, with debts of £18,000 and £12,000 respectively.
Over two months since entering administration, Harland & Wolff now appears to be on the brink of a rescue deal with Spanish state-owned shipbuilder Navantia, a move that could potentially safeguard around 1,000 jobs.
Harland & Wolff did not respond to a request for comment.
btw - if you are merging ferries, why not buses (or trains)
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:54, 27th September 2024 |
An update, from the BBC:
Titanic shipbuilder formally enters administration
Harland and Wolff, the Belfast-based shipbuilder which built the Titanic, has formally entered administration for the second time in five years.
Last week the company’s board had warned that the move was inevitable.
The administration process is confined to the holding company, Harland & Wolff Group Holdings plc, with the operational companies which run the yards continuing to trade.
Its main yard is in Belfast with other operation at Appledore in England and Methil and Arnish in Scotland.
The company’s executive chairman, Russell Downs, is optimistic that a new owner or owners will be found for the yards.
Gavin Park and Matt Cowlishaw of Teneo Financial Advisory have been appointed as joint administrators.
The holding company currently has 59 employees.
In a statement Harland and Wolff said: "The Administrators will unfortunately be required to reduce the headcount upon appointment. A number of employees will be retained to provide certain required services to the operational companies under a transitional services agreement with the Administrators."
The company has also restated that the administration process means that shareholders in Harland and Wolff will see the value of their investment wiped out.
Famous for building the Titanic, the Belfast shipyard was founded in 1861 by Yorkshireman Edward Harland and his German business partner, Gustav Wolff. By the early 20th Century, Harland and Wolff dominated global shipbuilding and had become the most prolific builder of ocean liners in the world.
Harland and Wolff was bought out of administration in 2019. Its then Norwegian owners had withdrawn support and the business fell into insolvency, having not built a ship in a generation.
The new owner, Infrastrata, was a small London-based energy firm which did not have significant experience in marine engineering. Infrastrata later changed its name to Harland and Wolff and in 2022 won a major Royal Navy contract as part of a consortium led by Navantia, Spain’s state-owned shipbuilder.
However financial losses mounted as it scaled up its operations. The 2021 accounts, which covered a 17-month period, showed a loss of more than £25m. The audited annual accounts for 2022 showed turnover of £28m and a loss of about £70m with the auditor’s opinion of "material uncertainty" about the firm’s ability to continue as a going concern. Unaudited accounts for 2023 saw a loss of £43m.
The company was increasingly reliant on high-interest borrowings from a specialist US lender, Riverstone. It was also pinning its hopes on getting government loan guarantee that would allow refinancing with more conventional lenders.
In July the new government confirmed there would be no support as there was "a very substantial risk that taxpayer money would be lost".
Russell Downs, a restructuring expert, was parachuted in to act as executive chairman and began a strategic review of the business along with advisors from Rothschild bank.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by stuving at 14:13, 18th September 2024 |
MoD has just ordered new supply ships from H&W https://www.forcesnews.com/services/navy/fleet-solid-support-ships-contract-royal-navy-will-go-ahead-troubled-belfast-shipyard
This order was in fact placed in January last year, with the Resolute consortium including H&W. Most reporters and headline writers have struggled to make the distinction between the shipyards businesses (trading and solvent) and the group holding company (being wound up as insolvent). Even Hilary' Benn's statement doesn't manage to, perhaps because both companies are just called Harland and Wolff.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by CyclingSid at 07:29, 18th September 2024 |
MoD has just ordered new supply ships from H&W https://www.forcesnews.com/services/navy/fleet-solid-support-ships-contract-royal-navy-will-go-ahead-troubled-belfast-shipyard
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 06:35, 18th September 2024 |
Oddly, the H&W freight services are still running on the Scillies services.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 17:50, 17th September 2024 |
Thanks, GBM - I made a right pig's breakfast of that hyperlink - now corrected.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 17:22, 17th September 2024 |
From the BBC:
Titanic shipyard to go into administration
Shipbuilding company Harland and Wolff has confirmed the business is to be placed into administration for the second time in five years.
Insolvency practitioners Teneo are being lined up to act as administrators and some "non-core" staff are being made redundant.
However, the company’s board said there was a "credible pathway" for its four shipyards to continue trading under new ownership.
Its main yard is in Belfast, best known for building the Titanic, with other operations at Appledore in England and Methil and Arnish in Scotland.
The company said the administration process would be confined to the holding company, Harland & Wolff Group Holdings plc, and the operational companies which run the yards are expected to continue trading.
However, shareholders will see the value of their investments in the business entirely wiped out.
The firm said its non-core operations are being wound down.
That process had already started with the closure of its Scilly Isles ferry service before sailing had even begun.
(... news article continues ...)
Titanic shipyard to go into administration
Shipbuilding company Harland and Wolff has confirmed the business is to be placed into administration for the second time in five years.
Insolvency practitioners Teneo are being lined up to act as administrators and some "non-core" staff are being made redundant.
However, the company’s board said there was a "credible pathway" for its four shipyards to continue trading under new ownership.
Its main yard is in Belfast, best known for building the Titanic, with other operations at Appledore in England and Methil and Arnish in Scotland.
The company said the administration process would be confined to the holding company, Harland & Wolff Group Holdings plc, and the operational companies which run the yards are expected to continue trading.
However, shareholders will see the value of their investments in the business entirely wiped out.
The firm said its non-core operations are being wound down.
That process had already started with the closure of its Scilly Isles ferry service before sailing had even begun.
(... news article continues ...)
Not able to click through from the link
Maybe this will work
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkddrv7v2po
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 16:52, 17th September 2024 |
From the BBC:
Titanic shipyard to go into administration
Shipbuilding company Harland and Wolff has confirmed the business is to be placed into administration for the second time in five years.
Insolvency practitioners Teneo are being lined up to act as administrators and some "non-core" staff are being made redundant.
However, the company’s board said there was a "credible pathway" for its four shipyards to continue trading under new ownership.
Its main yard is in Belfast, best known for building the Titanic, with other operations at Appledore in England and Methil and Arnish in Scotland.
The company said the administration process would be confined to the holding company, Harland & Wolff Group Holdings plc, and the operational companies which run the yards are expected to continue trading.
However, shareholders will see the value of their investments in the business entirely wiped out.
The firm said its non-core operations are being wound down.
That process had already started with the closure of its Scilly Isles ferry service before sailing had even begun.
(... news article continues ...)
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 19:56, 1st August 2024 |
Atlantic Wolff has ceased trading (before it started).
Should I now amend this topic heading again, to include '... not happening' ?
From the BBC: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5gkxg700jo
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by stuving at 10:17, 1st August 2024 |
Atlantic Wolff has ceased trading (before it started).
Harland and Wolf have advised they've cased all Scilly operations.
It's reported on local radio, but nothing on the BBC web as yet.
Cornwall Live (complete with many clicks) https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/live-scilly-ferries-announce-sudden-9451528
Harland and Wolf have advised they've cased all Scilly operations.
It's reported on local radio, but nothing on the BBC web as yet.
Cornwall Live (complete with many clicks) https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/live-scilly-ferries-announce-sudden-9451528
This is part of a deal to allow the main business to avoid administration, by cutting non-core activities. I guess the backers are saying "no point investing in the future if you go bust this year". From City AM:
Harland and Wolff: Titanic shipbuilder staves off collapse after securing emergency £20m loan
By: Guy Taylor
The Belfast shipyard said it had entered into agreements with lenders to increase its existing credit facility by $25m (£19.5m).
...
However, the announcement was followed by a decision from the shipyard to withdraw its Scilly Isle ferries service, which runs between the islands and Penzance.
In a statement, Harland said it would be “winding down business lines that are deemed to be non-core for the company” as it looks to cut costs.
The new Scilly Ferries service was set to run its first trips on 22 July, but kick-off was delayed due to Harland’s financial issues.
By: Guy Taylor
The Belfast shipyard said it had entered into agreements with lenders to increase its existing credit facility by $25m (£19.5m).
...
However, the announcement was followed by a decision from the shipyard to withdraw its Scilly Isle ferries service, which runs between the islands and Penzance.
In a statement, Harland said it would be “winding down business lines that are deemed to be non-core for the company” as it looks to cut costs.
The new Scilly Ferries service was set to run its first trips on 22 July, but kick-off was delayed due to Harland’s financial issues.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 08:55, 1st August 2024 |
Atlantic Wolff has ceased trading (before it started).
Harland and Wolf have advised they've cased all Scilly operations.
It's reported on local radio, but nothing on the BBC web as yet.
Cornwall Live (complete with many clicks) https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/live-scilly-ferries-announce-sudden-9451528
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 14:49, 27th July 2024 |
In view of the continual delays, may we perhaps just take off the "delayed until mid-July" from the title please?
Just make it "New Isles of Scilly ferry service".
Bearing in mind in 2025 plans will be drawn up for the Scillonian replacement.
With perhaps a year for building.
Just make it "New Isles of Scilly ferry service".
Bearing in mind in 2025 plans will be drawn up for the Scillonian replacement.
With perhaps a year for building.
Agreed, and done. I've also moved the topic to this board, where other ferry issues are covered.
Hope this helps! CfN.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by eightonedee at 11:53, 27th July 2024 |
Sadly, recent press articles about Harland & Wolff's financial difficulties indicate a shortage of cash might be the problem.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by froome at 08:54, 27th July 2024 |
...first sailing now postponed to 20th August, "due to unforeseen reasons, beyond it's control"
..........crew shortage?
Wrong sort of waves?
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TaplowGreen at 08:38, 27th July 2024 |
...first sailing now postponed to 20th August, "due to unforeseen reasons, beyond it's control"
..........crew shortage?
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by grahame at 07:08, 27th July 2024 |
In view of the continual delays, may we perhaps just take off the "delayed until mid-July" from the title please?
But the title does not say mid-July in which year ...
Yeah, makes sense to make the change though
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 07:00, 27th July 2024 |
In view of the continual delays, may we perhaps just take off the "delayed until mid-July" from the title please?
Just make it "New Isles of Scilly ferry service".
Bearing in mind in 2025 plans will be drawn up for the Scillonian replacement.
With perhaps a year for building.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 11:12, 26th July 2024 |
...first sailing now postponed to 20th August, "due to unforeseen reasons, beyond it's control"
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 09:50, 20th July 2024 |
The new fast ferry, "The Atlantic Wolff", arrived in Newlyn last Wednesday (17th) and was due to start in service Monday 22nd July, but another delay was announced yesterday and it is now due to start on Tuesday 30th.
Interestingly also announced yesterday was the resignation, or "taking a leave of absence" of Harland & Wolff CEO John Wood after failing to secure a £200m loan extension....
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 20:20, 23rd June 2024 |
Me too.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by bobm at 13:29, 23rd June 2024 |
Whenever someone mentions Mendip, I think of.....
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by johnneyw at 10:48, 23rd June 2024 |
Also, 'Scilly Ferries'. Wasn't there a time when the islanders themselves would use 'Scilly' 'The Isles of Scilly', but leave the phrase 'The Scilly Isles' to the visitors?
I've always known and referred to them as "the Isles of Scilly". Mind you, I also habitually say "the Mendip Hills" rather than "the Mendips" .
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Mark A at 09:39, 23rd June 2024 |
Thanks for querying that. You're right, not the current Scillonian. Not a Scillonian at all. That's the 'Queen of the Isles' that came (briefly) into service in 1965 and saw Penzance intermittently for the next five years or so.
Mark
http://www.queenoftheisles.com/
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 09:03, 23rd June 2024 |
An engaging collection of images of Penzance station and environs on Curnow Collection's link below.
It includes one of a large station nameboard on one of the platforms, the entire scene looking to be from a different era. Behind the sign, a view to the south pier, and, alongside, a vessel which turns out to be the current Scillonian 3 ... a bit of a time-traveller.
Mark
https://curnowcollection.com/penzance-infrastructure/
It includes one of a large station nameboard on one of the platforms, the entire scene looking to be from a different era. Behind the sign, a view to the south pier, and, alongside, a vessel which turns out to be the current Scillonian 3 ... a bit of a time-traveller.
Mark
https://curnowcollection.com/penzance-infrastructure/
I would think that photo' is pre 1977 which means that it would be the Scillonian 2 but, as you say, it is a very good collection
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Mark A at 15:13, 22nd June 2024 |
An engaging collection of images of Penzance station and environs on Curnow Collection's link below.
It includes one of a large station nameboard on one of the platforms, the entire scene looking to be from a different era. Behind the sign, a view to the south pier, and, alongside, a vessel which turns out to be the current Scillonian 3 ... a bit of a time-traveller.
Mark
https://curnowcollection.com/penzance-infrastructure/
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 11:28, 22nd June 2024 |
It will be interesting to see how both ferries can load and discharge when in the harbour.
Freight even more so.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Mark A at 11:04, 22nd June 2024 |
The Portsmouth weather horked their painting schedule. Surprising it didn't fit inside a shed, mind.
Like the way they've styled it to blend in to the Scilly landscape.
Does anyone know the history of how the ferries have been accommodated in Penzance harbour? Wondering where the new one will berth.
Also, 'Scilly Ferries'. Wasn't there a time when the islanders themselves would use 'Scilly' 'The Isles of Scilly', but leave the phrase 'The Scilly Isles' to the visitors?
Mark
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 07:06, 22nd June 2024 |
https://scillyferries.co.uk/
20 June
Atlantic Wolff Update
The vessel has now re entered the water in Portsmouth and undergoing final works, the project has indeed been challenging in many ways to ensure the vessel is in a material condition that we are comfortable with. We are now very close to being operationally ready, with our gangways having been load tested and our additional structure for the top deck loading will be fitted next week.
The regulatory authorities have been back onboard the vessel this week where they have witnessed the emergency deployment of the life raft system and the crew have demonstrated the safe evacuation of passengers. We are in the final stages of flagging the vessel into the UK Ship Register and we look forward to seeing the red ensign flying proudly on the back of the vessel shortly.
Whilst we are not yet ready to accept passengers, we do believe by early / mid July we will be in a position to do so.
snip........
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 21:46, 21st June 2024 |
From ITV
A new ferry service for the Isles of Scilly has delayed its launch date for a second time, as it undergoes final regulatory approvals.
Scilly Ferries had started taking bookings from the beginning of May to coincide with the World Pilot Gigs Championships and has been providing customers with alternative crossings.
The Atlantic Wolff ferry is currently on the water in Portsmouth where, after rebranding, has been through a series of tests but it is unlikely to be operational until early to mid July.
In a statement to customers Harland and Wolff CEO John Wood said "We know that this is disappointing, but we will do our utmost to transfer your bookings under the same terms where at all."
The company which is the rival of the 104-year-old Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (IOSSC) has been a topic of conversation for many months. Opinions have been divided on how successful it will be.
Janice Nightingale from the Bourdeaux shop said "it's certainly shaken things up a bit.
"You always think that it's good to have a bit of competition so and it gives you choices.
"I don't know that there's going to be enough business or sufficient business to keep both of them going."
As well as moving people on and off the islands, the ferries are vital for getting freight to the Isles of Scilly.
Phil Moon, managing director of the restaurant and cafe On the Quay, says the bulk of their supplies come from the mainland three times a week.
"With the competition that's coming in, and the differences that that might do, it's interesting, but also very worrying, because we just don't know what the future holds."
"There's positives and negatives. Obviously we need a service full stop. If there's no service here, there's no Isles of Scilly in my eyes."
Meanwhile the long-serving ferry, 47-year-old Scillonian 3, is on its way out with the new Mark 4 vessel is starting to be built in Vietnam at the end of June. The IOSSC expects it to be in action by 2026.
It has not all been smooth sailing for the long standing Steamship Company with some controversy over the changes in finances with it being privately funded instead of receiving £48 million pounds of levelling up money.
Stuart Reid, chief pperations denied there was any trust issues with islanders saying: "Everything we do is around ensuring that there's maximum benefit for both the community and the company at the same time.
"That goes with the new vessel project as well. We did a huge amount of consultation during the design process.
"We've been out several times to the islands, right the way through that four year project, which allowed the community to feed back into those plans, but will the two services."
Cllr Steve Simms, the Isles of Scilly lead for transport, has been closed following the actions of each company.
Cllr Simms said: "It's like a Greek tragedy...leaving the islands in a state of flux.
"I do not know what the travel situation will be here in 12 months because of what's happening.
"And also, on the other side in Whitehall, we see absolute chaos and we can't move on until we get another government."
Scilly Ferries had started taking bookings from the beginning of May to coincide with the World Pilot Gigs Championships and has been providing customers with alternative crossings.
The Atlantic Wolff ferry is currently on the water in Portsmouth where, after rebranding, has been through a series of tests but it is unlikely to be operational until early to mid July.
In a statement to customers Harland and Wolff CEO John Wood said "We know that this is disappointing, but we will do our utmost to transfer your bookings under the same terms where at all."
The company which is the rival of the 104-year-old Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (IOSSC) has been a topic of conversation for many months. Opinions have been divided on how successful it will be.
Janice Nightingale from the Bourdeaux shop said "it's certainly shaken things up a bit.
"You always think that it's good to have a bit of competition so and it gives you choices.
"I don't know that there's going to be enough business or sufficient business to keep both of them going."
As well as moving people on and off the islands, the ferries are vital for getting freight to the Isles of Scilly.
Phil Moon, managing director of the restaurant and cafe On the Quay, says the bulk of their supplies come from the mainland three times a week.
"With the competition that's coming in, and the differences that that might do, it's interesting, but also very worrying, because we just don't know what the future holds."
"There's positives and negatives. Obviously we need a service full stop. If there's no service here, there's no Isles of Scilly in my eyes."
Meanwhile the long-serving ferry, 47-year-old Scillonian 3, is on its way out with the new Mark 4 vessel is starting to be built in Vietnam at the end of June. The IOSSC expects it to be in action by 2026.
It has not all been smooth sailing for the long standing Steamship Company with some controversy over the changes in finances with it being privately funded instead of receiving £48 million pounds of levelling up money.
Stuart Reid, chief pperations denied there was any trust issues with islanders saying: "Everything we do is around ensuring that there's maximum benefit for both the community and the company at the same time.
"That goes with the new vessel project as well. We did a huge amount of consultation during the design process.
"We've been out several times to the islands, right the way through that four year project, which allowed the community to feed back into those plans, but will the two services."
Cllr Steve Simms, the Isles of Scilly lead for transport, has been closed following the actions of each company.
Cllr Simms said: "It's like a Greek tragedy...leaving the islands in a state of flux.
"I do not know what the travel situation will be here in 12 months because of what's happening.
"And also, on the other side in Whitehall, we see absolute chaos and we can't move on until we get another government."
A couple of photos of the new ferry in the article.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Mark A at 11:16, 6th March 2024 |
I took a look and was struck by how much the service varies from one day to another - it seems to lack pattern and I wonder if that's tidal, what it does for regular traffic that might like consistency, or have I totally missed something?
Visiting Scilly back in the day, the helicopter service and various flights were already a thing, but onward travel and especially travel to and from the off-islands was very much geared to the arrival/departure of the Scillonian which did keep things reasonably simple and straightforward for through travellers. It would be interesting to know how things work now.
Mark
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 07:16, 6th March 2024 |
The current Steamship Company do reduced fares for 'mainlanders' for a day out; both ways by ship; out by ship and return by flight (also v.v).
Wonder if the new company will compete with special reduced fares to compete.
The independent helicopter company also does occasional special reduced day trips, albeit comparable prices to Skybus (the Steamship arm).
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 07:08, 6th March 2024 |
The timetable colouring doesn't look good for me, not easy to read.
A 'day out' during the week gives very little time ashore on most runs.
With the current Scillonian (III), a Saturday run ashore have more time there compared with this proposed IoS ferry service.
Without checking, I wonder if the different times are tidal related.
The 90 minute crossing will be a boon to provide two trips a day.
Also noting an intermittent Sunday service (double in the early months).
Prior to this there has never been a Sunday service - not even flights.
Revolutionary!
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by grahame at 02:22, 6th March 2024 |
It seems to be a Catamaran for people only, no vehicles.
Two return trips a day most days, 90 mins is quicker than the Steamship. £48.75 return is very reasonable.
Two return trips a day most days, 90 mins is quicker than the Steamship. £48.75 return is very reasonable.
I took a look and was struck by how much the service varies from one day to another - it seems to lack pattern and I wonder if that's tidal, what it does for regular traffic that might like consistency, or have I totally missed something? A sample month:
The white on yellow looks good on the pictures of the cat - I found it hard in their timetable and I have colour adjusted the screen captures here to make it (for me at least) more readable. Again, others may find the originals easier on the eye ... I appreciate I am reading / posting in the middle of the night.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 21:02, 5th March 2024 |
It seems to be a Catamaran for people only, no vehicles.
Two return trips a day most days, 90 mins is quicker than the Steamship. £48.75 return is very reasonable.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 20:43, 5th March 2024 |
...Scilly Ferries now booking...
https://scillyferries.co.uk/
unfortunately doesn't appear to be any cheaper than the IOS Steamship company
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Mark A at 21:31, 23rd December 2023 |
And there she is: a shipping map.
Mark
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10
"Oh no she's not!" (panto season).Mark
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10
As at time of writing, she's alongside in Penzance.
And now returned to Scilly.
Mark
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by LiskeardRich at 11:21, 23rd December 2023 |
H & W proposing new ferry for next year. I wonder if the ISSC will regret their decision regarding takks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67800783
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67800783
A new ferry is set to take passengers between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly in faster journey times from next summer, its operator says.
Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips.
Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected".
The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March.
H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes.
Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips.
Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected".
The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March.
H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes.
game on
Aremiti 5 appears to be the vessel in question. Recently advertised for sale, and is an Austal 56m meeting all of the other specification mentioned
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 11:16, 23rd December 2023 |
And there she is: a shipping map.
Mark
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10
"Oh no she's not!" (panto season).Mark
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10
As at time of writing, she's alongside in Penzance.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Mark A at 09:46, 23rd December 2023 |
And there she is: a shipping map.
Mark
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-5.7/centery:50.0/zoom:10
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 07:50, 23rd December 2023 |
A local inter-island launch, Lyonesse Lady will make a return trip today, already a third of the way to Penzance, but she's not capable of speed! 8 knots.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Mark A at 21:29, 22nd December 2023 |
Hmm. It'll be a while since many people on Scilly have had to resort to sea-beef.
Mark
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by bradshaw at 21:11, 22nd December 2023 |
The plot thickens….
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67806640
Urgent food deliveries have been set up for the Isles of Scilly in time for Christmas after a freight ship carrying chilled foods broke down.
The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC) said the Gry Maritha returned to Penzance shortly after departure.
It said the repair was not likely to be completed until Boxing Day at the earliest.
The firm apologised for the disruption, as rival firm Harland and Wolff (H&W) stepped in to make the delivery.
H&W said it had set up a free freight service to St Mary's on Saturday.
John Wood, H&W's chief executive, said on Facebook the service was "for any emergency items and food required for Christmas".
He said only one run was possible, because of the forecasted weather conditions.
He added: "It is an unfortunate situation and difficult to deal with at this late stage with everyone shutting down for Christmas, but we are looking at all options."
ISSC said in a travel update it was "exploring all options" for the transportation of urgent chilled food to the Scilly Isles.
"Please accept our apologies for the obvious inconvenience that this has caused, and be assured we are doing all that we can to minimise further disruption to the freight service," it said.
The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC) said the Gry Maritha returned to Penzance shortly after departure.
It said the repair was not likely to be completed until Boxing Day at the earliest.
The firm apologised for the disruption, as rival firm Harland and Wolff (H&W) stepped in to make the delivery.
H&W said it had set up a free freight service to St Mary's on Saturday.
John Wood, H&W's chief executive, said on Facebook the service was "for any emergency items and food required for Christmas".
He said only one run was possible, because of the forecasted weather conditions.
He added: "It is an unfortunate situation and difficult to deal with at this late stage with everyone shutting down for Christmas, but we are looking at all options."
ISSC said in a travel update it was "exploring all options" for the transportation of urgent chilled food to the Scilly Isles.
"Please accept our apologies for the obvious inconvenience that this has caused, and be assured we are doing all that we can to minimise further disruption to the freight service," it said.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 18:20, 22nd December 2023 |
H & W proposing new ferry for next year. I wonder if the ISSC will regret their decision regarding takks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67800783
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67800783
A new ferry is set to take passengers between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly in faster journey times from next summer, its operator says.
Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips.
Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected".
The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March.
H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes.
Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips.
Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected".
The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March.
H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes.
game on
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by bradshaw at 17:02, 22nd December 2023 |
H & W proposing new ferry for next year. I wonder if the ISSC will regret their decision regarding talks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67800783
A new ferry is set to take passengers between Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly in faster journey times from next summer, its operator says.
Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips.
Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected".
The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March.
H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes.
Shipbuilder Harland and Wolff (H&W) has chartered a ship it says will come into service from May, with 90-minute trips.
Last month H&W made an approach to buy the existing operators, the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC), but was "unequivocally rejected".
The ISSC ferry, the Scillonian III, is scheduled to sail from March.
H&W is calling its new arm Scilly Ferries, and said the new vessel was a catamaran that would take up to 400 passengers between Penzance and St Mary's in about one hour and 30 minutes.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 18:10, 21st December 2023 |
H&W no longer interested in taking over IOSSC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67785067
But they are still building their own ships to run in opposition (earlier than the Steamship ones)https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67785067
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 13:42, 21st December 2023 |
H&W no longer interested in taking over IOSSC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67785067
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 12:38, 25th November 2023 |
The only late autumn>winter>early spring public transport services are the separate Penzance<>IOS helicopter service (£150 one way) and the IOS Skybus (£130 one way) from Land's End Airport. Given the weather during this part of the year I would have grave doubts that anybody could run a reliable year-round maritime service.
Likewise the GryMaritha (the current winter service freight and 8 (or 12?) passengers.
If H&W can provide a good winter service (plus a good less weather dependent summer service), then well done that man.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Bob_Blakey at 11:25, 25th November 2023 |
...H&W seemed to offer the best option for all year round services. ...
The Harland & Wolff 'brand' is apparently now owned by a company called InfraStrata who run a number of small ship building and repair yards in the UK (including Appledore in North Devon).
The only late autumn>winter>early spring public transport services are the separate Penzance<>IOS helicopter service (£150 one way) and the IOS Skybus (£130 one way) from Land's End Airport. Given the weather during this part of the year I would have grave doubts that anybody could run a reliable year-round maritime service. InfraStrata have absolutely no history of providing public transport services so I would be very suspicious of their motives in this case.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 09:08, 25th November 2023 |
Didn't see that coming!
Not enough trade for two companies to run all year.
H&W seemed to offer the best option for all year round services.
The helicopter service from Penzance is nothing to do with the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company either.
Will be interesting to see this play out.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 15:43, 24th November 2023 |
It was previously suggested that H&W were considering to build 3 new ships to run a competing service using the levelling up fund that the IOSSP declined, H&W now appear to be trying to take control of the IOSSP....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-67518645
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by rogerw at 18:41, 21st May 2021 |
Used this service in 1963. In those days you could stand up in the bows. It pitched on the way out, giving me a soaking at one stage as I wasn't watching out. On the way back it had a significant, albeit gentle, rolling motion.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Jamsdad at 17:48, 21st May 2021 |
'Twas ever thus. The renowned Victorian/ Edwardian photographer Gibson produced a memorable series of photos showing the increasing despair of passengers on the original Scillonian as they head west wards into the open ocean!
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by stuving at 15:10, 21st May 2021 |
The closest I got to that ocean-going punt was going down to the harbour at St Mary's to see the surviving passenger coming ashore - so hard to colour-match that shade of green. We'd flown across, and that was scary enough (he helicopters had stopped). On the way back we landed at both St Mawgan and Newquay - at about 45o across the runway. (This would be about 1974.)
I don't remember much about visiting to the Isle of Man as a young teenager, apart from the crossing on the Manxman. That has a similar reputation, and I thought a similar (lack of) draught - but apparently it's about twice the Scillonian's. Still, at that age it was quite bad enough for me.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 14:41, 21st May 2021 |
Today's crossing got canned, not surprising really
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by johoare at 14:09, 21st May 2021 |
I've been on that boat twice and it didn't make me feel ill at all but many other people were suffering even though the crossings I was on were relatively calm (way out) and slighly less calm (way back). I would not like to travel today or tomorrow on it though. Not even in the downstairs "sick" room (which is my name for it - not the official name )
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by old original at 13:56, 21st May 2021 |
Well it'll probably take your mind off Covid for a few hours
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/gallery/uncomfortable-isles-scilly-ferry-trip-5437463
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by LiskeardRich at 18:07, 14th July 2017 |
The Facebook post said July and August. I must admit not reading it fully though
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by SandTEngineer at 17:40, 14th July 2017 |
Isles of Scilly steamship company are running an offer for residents of Devon and cornwall to do a Sunday day trip in July and August for £25 per adult
Details here
https://www.islesofscilly-travel.co.uk/locals-offer-2017/
Mmm. The weblink says it ends in July..... Shame, as I could have done the trip last month.Details here
https://www.islesofscilly-travel.co.uk/locals-offer-2017/
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by LiskeardRich at 16:32, 14th July 2017 |
Isles of Scilly steamship company are running an offer for residents of Devon and cornwall to do a Sunday day trip in July and August for £25 per adult
Details here
https://www.islesofscilly-travel.co.uk/locals-offer-2017/
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Thatcham Crossing at 09:52, 3rd February 2015 |
I wonder which "Penzance Heliport" that is, as the old one in now a Sainsbury's Supermarket (I know a lot of people know that!)
I can't see Skybus/IoS Steamship being too keen on a helicopter op. from St Just (which they own, and have just spent quite a bit on) in direct competition with their fixed wing op. Anyway, St. Just is no good for someone arriving by train at PZ and wanting to travel on by air.
Newquay is an option, great if flying in from London, and wanting to xfer to IoS, but Skybus already make this possible, and Newquay is not very good for road/rail connectivity.
The ideal would be another heliport right next to the Penzance rail terminus and the A30, but in the past BiH could not make it work (and that was with an existing heliport and old helicopters that were probably written down years ago), so this seems like a venture for someone with very deep pockets.
If AgustaWestland are involved, I wonder which helicopter they are proposing? Assuming a civil version of the Merlin/EH101 is not likely to happen (it never has yet), the AW189 is their only other current model that might be suitable. The nearest replacement for the old S61's is the S92, but that of course is a Sikorsky!
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by GBM at 07:58, 3rd February 2015 |
From Andrew Geroge, M.P, West Cornwall
http://www.andrewgeorge.org.uk/scillies-helicopter-step-closer/
Scillies Helicopter Service One Step Closer
Andrew and AgustaWestland Chairman Graham Cole before their meeting at Department for Transport
The effort to reinstate a helicopter service to the Scillies continues. I recently led a delegation of senior executives from AgustaWestland and PricewaterhouseCoopers to meet Transport Minister, Baroness Kramer, to seek Government support for the reinstatement of the Scillies helicopter service. It was agreed that, following the meeting, PricewaterhouseCoopers and AgustaWestland executives will meet with Department for Transport officials to go through the report to identify where there may be prospects for Government support within state aid rules.
This is encouraging. The PwC report/business case is encouraging and confirms there is a viable business opportunity for the service, operating from a Penzance heliport. It also confirms that a new heli-link will be a significant boost to the Islands^ and the Penzance economy.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:15, 27th September 2014 |
From the BBC:
Cornwall and Isles of Scilly link work to begin
Harbour works and dredging improvements will be carried out
Work to improve transport links between Penzance and the Isles of Scilly is set to begin after funds were secured.
The ^11.9m scheme includes pier widening, dredging in Penzance and improvements to both harbours.
The European Regional Development Fund will provide ^5.5m for the scheme, with the Department for Transport providing the rest of the money.
The Scillonian ferry and the Skybus air service links Cornwall to the islands.
The works are expected to be completed in Penzance by the end of March and on the islands by the end of June.
Harbour works and dredging improvements will be carried out
Work to improve transport links between Penzance and the Isles of Scilly is set to begin after funds were secured.
The ^11.9m scheme includes pier widening, dredging in Penzance and improvements to both harbours.
The European Regional Development Fund will provide ^5.5m for the scheme, with the Department for Transport providing the rest of the money.
The Scillonian ferry and the Skybus air service links Cornwall to the islands.
The works are expected to be completed in Penzance by the end of March and on the islands by the end of June.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 16:48, 11th September 2014 |
Our flight did: taking off was OK, the crossing quick, and the landing ... interesting. The pilot based his landing technique on the width of the St Mawgan runway, meaning that an oblique approach got the wind close to head-on, and the reduced airspeed that allowed something close to a zero-length landing roll.
It's only later, on reflection, that you wonder if it was such a good idea after all.
It's only later, on reflection, that you wonder if it was such a good idea after all.
It is a little disconcerting to be able to see the runway through the passenger windows on finals, but I'm betting that your pilot ran the aircraft straight down the middle of the runway after banging the nose around at the last minute.
The offset approach is generally favoured by bigger aircraft. For we four-seater single engine jockeys, the "wing down" method is preferred. You dip the wing into the wind, then apply opposite rudder, holding this sideslip position even through the flare. You need to estimate the headwind and crosswind components rather quickly, using the information supplied by the tower - as an example, if you were landing on runway 27 at Bristol, and you were told by the ATIS (Automated Traffic Information System* - a recording of the current state of play) "Wind is three one zero speed three zero knots", the wind is 40 degrees right of the runway direction. You would have a crosswind component of around 20 knots, and a headwind component of around 23 knots - out of my depth!
Airspeed is never reduced for landing, but with an approach speed of 70 knots for a PA28 and a 23 knot headwind, the relative ground speed is a mere 57 knots, which makes it feel like a Harrier landing. The three most important things to monitor during finals to land are, in order of importance, 1) Airspeed 2) Airspeed and 3) Airspeed.
My first crosswind landing remains a memory. I turned from base leg to finals to land on 27 at Filton, at 1500 feet, and about 2 miles out. I lined up perfectly with the runway, then watched it slide gracefully to the right. After I had done it a few times, my instructor said he couldn't understand why my landings were closer to the centre line with a crosswind than without. I couldn't understand it either.
(* You can listen to the ATIS on frequency 126.025 MHz, callsign Bristol Information, or on 01275 475686. These are published contact information. Each update has an identification letter from Alpha to Zulu, and a pilot would call eg "Golf - Foxtrot Golf Whiskey Romeo, aerodrome in sight, DME 10 decimal 9 with information Quebec, request joining instructions Golf - Whiskey Romeo.")
Which reminds me that it's time for a dram. Sl^inte!
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 00:17, 5th September 2014 |
Indeed. And an excellent landing is one that allows the aircraft to fly again.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 00:01, 5th September 2014 |
An old pilot's adage: 'Any landing that you walk away from was a good one.'
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by stuving at 23:38, 4th September 2014 |
Even in Summer, and especially with the weather as it was last week (wet, windy, low cloud, poor viz a lot of the time), I can only imagine that the Skybus fixed-wing operation must be haphazard at best.
The big helicopters were much more resilient to the variable west country weather!
The big helicopters were much more resilient to the variable west country weather!
You'd think so, but not always - at least, not in the early 70s when I went to the Scillies. We started by objecting to the extra cost due to some of the party insisting on going by plane, but the day we came back the BA helicopters were grounded. I can't now remember who flew the little plane we were on (10 seats or less) from Newquay, or whether they really were the only fixed-wing operators at the time.
The day before we came back, we could afford to joke about the 50 shades of green that the Scillonian had given its passengers, when they disembarked. This was the old one - more draught than the current vessel, but no stabiliser - and famous for its roll. Then, as I say, we found BA were not running due to high winds. Our flight did: taking off was OK, the crossing quick, and the landing ... interesting. The pilot based his landing technique on the width of the St Mawgan runway, meaning that an oblique approach got the wind close to head-on, and the reduced airspeed that allowed something close to a zero-length landing roll.
It's only later, on reflection, that you wonder if it was such a good idea after all.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 22:39, 4th September 2014 |
choo-choo-chop-chop
Is that not a perfect marketing tagline? Quick FT,N! Trademark it!
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 22:16, 4th September 2014 |
I've long wanted to visit the Isles of Scilly and was actively looking at the rail/helicopter options back in the early part of this decade. Much more preferable to me, for novelty, than the Scillonian sailing or fixed wing flight.
I also looked for options, and hope to be able to do so again in the not-too-distant. Fun though the choo-choo-chop-chop combo may be, my own preferred method, highly unlikely though it now is, would always be in the left-hand seat of a 4 seater aircraft, such as a PA-28. Whilst learning to fly, I planned it as a theoretical navigational exercise, starting from Filton. The route took us over Exmoor, around Plymouth, and across Cornwall. I built in a re-fuelling / brew stop at either Perranporth, Bodmin, or Lands End. If the last, I would spend a bit of time climbing after departure, for safety - at least FL060 before the mid-point of the crossing via the Scillies Corridor. Then a slow descent for an overhead join before one of my semi-controlled but somehow ultimately soft reconnections with the floor, preferably via runway 33.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 20:21, 4th September 2014 |
A new heliport needs less space than an airport, and with only a couple of dozen pax per flight, it needs only a small terminal, a short runway, fuel, and fire services. And a windsock.
To add. Transport infrastructure and multi-mode ticketing options to bring custom to the heliport. Just like what there used to be.
Could be done, should be done. I agree. Whether it will be done is an entirely different kettle of fish. Or whirlybird full of people.
I've long wanted to visit the Isles of Scilly and was actively looking at the rail/helicopter options back in the early part of this decade. Much more preferable to me, for novelty, than the Scillonian sailing or fixed wing flight.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 20:01, 4th September 2014 |
This is, unless a cynical electioneering stunt, cause for optimism, although not much. It's a long way from the reported words of the MP who wants a helicopter service and the man who wants to sell a new helicopter to the first flight. There is no reason why it couldn't happen. A new heliport needs less space than an airport, and with only a couple of dozen pax per flight, it needs only a small terminal, a short runway, fuel, and fire services. And a windsock.
A windsock is a visual aid to the wind as it is at the moment of observation, and does not form part of the suite of instruments in a Met Office weather station. If there is a filling station at the supermarket, then the windsock may be there to assist the emergency services in the event of vapour leak. You will see four on the roof of the huge Morrison depot near North Petherton, probably for the same reason. The nearest Met Office weather station is at RNAS Culdrose, with another at Camborne. There isn't one at Lands End airport, nor at Newquay airport.
The latter does provide aviation observations in the form of METARs (METeorological Aviation Reports) which are observations of the weather at the airfield. These are nothing to do with the MET Office, but observation of wind, visibility, temperature, pressure, and cloud, made by the man or woman in the tower. It may be this that was offered by the former heliport, but there wasn't a Met Office station there when it closed, so far as I can tell.
METARs are promulgated world-wide by the Aviation Weather Center, part of the US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration. Bigger airfields, and Newquay is amongst them, also issue TAFs, Terminal Area Forecasts. Military fields have their own forecaster on site, civilian airfields' forecasts are made by the Met Office in Exeter. They typically offer a 24 hour forecast in a fairly small area (5 mile radius of the aerodrome), updated 6-hourly. These are also collated by NOAA.
The current METAR and TAF for Newquay, for interest, reads:
Aviation Digital Data Service (ADDS)
Output produced by METARs form (1825 UTC 04 September 2014)
found at http://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/
EGHQ 041820Z 35004KT 4500 HZ BKN008 17/15 Q1017
TAF AMD EGHQ 041803Z 0418/0421 09007KT 4000 HZ BKN012
PROB30
TEMPO 0418/0421 6000 SCT020
Output produced by METARs form (1825 UTC 04 September 2014)
found at http://www.aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/
EGHQ 041820Z 35004KT 4500 HZ BKN008 17/15 Q1017
TAF AMD EGHQ 041803Z 0418/0421 09007KT 4000 HZ BKN012
PROB30
TEMPO 0418/0421 6000 SCT020
showing that at EGHQ (Newquay) at 1820 UTC (1920 BST) on the 4th, the wind was 4 knots from 350 degrees. There is haze, and broken cloud at 800 feet, the horizontal visibilty being 4500 metres. The temperature is 17C, the dew point 15C (hence the haze and the low cloud), and the pressure adjusted to sea level is 1017 HectoPascals.
Between 1800 and 2100 UTC (1900 and 2200 BST) the wind will veer to become easterly, and strengthen to 7 knots, with broken cloud at 1200'. There will be temporary periods where visibility will improve to 6000 metres, and the cloud will lift slightly. But that bit has a probability of only 30%, so will be ignored mainly.
On the fixed wing front, fog or very low cloud will continue to thwart operations at Lands End, which has no instrument landing system. Newquay has, so can accept diversions in all but the worst of visibility. As the Scillies are so close, the standard procedure is to sit tight until the weather improves. Conditions can be checked locally by reference to the Aviator's Weather Forecasting Stone, which has a high degree of accuracy:
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Thatcham Crossing at 16:46, 4th September 2014 |
I was in Penzance last week (having not visited for around 15 months) and was amazed to be told by the guy in the Sainsburys filling station that the whole thing was built from scratch and opened in 6 months - it's a biggish store.
I also noticed that there is a windsock on the roof at the western end - but I presume not a strong enough roof for an S61 (or AW189) to land!
I imagine they may have had to retain some kind of Met. observation facility, as the heliport used to be an official Met Office Aviation reporting station.
Even in Summer, and especially with the weather as it was last week (wet, windy, low cloud, poor viz a lot of the time), I can only imagine that the Skybus fixed-wing operation must be haphazard at best.
The big helicopters were much more resilient to the variable west country weather!
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 16:23, 4th September 2014 |
No mention where the heliport would be in Penzance. Won't be cheap to build a new one.
Or are they going to use the Sainsbury's car park built over the old heliport?
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by grahame at 16:22, 4th September 2014 |
From the BBC:
St Ives MP Andrew George said talks were progressing well for passenger helicopters to return in 2015.
St Ives MP Andrew George said talks were progressing well for passenger helicopters to return in 2015.
Would 2015 be around the time that Mr George might be looking to defeat his parliamentary seat? Oops - it may sound like I'm being a bit cynical here, but in practise there is a certainly cyclicity in some forward looking, and in some speculative, developments.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 15:59, 4th September 2014 |
From the BBC:
Isles of Scilly helicopter link 'could reopen in 2015'
British International Helicopters blamed falling passenger numbers and rising costs for the end of the service to the Isles of Scilly in 2012
A helicopter link from Penzance to the Isles of Scilly could be reopened, a Cornish MP has announced.
St Ives MP Andrew George said talks were progressing well for passenger helicopters to return in 2015.
Tourism operators on Scilly said the price of a flight would have to be right for it to be successful.
Two companies approached by the BBC - EasyJet and Ryanair - refused to comment on "speculation" two airlines were interested in the venture.
The final helicopter journey to Scilly, after a 48-year link, by British International Helicopters (BIH) took place in October 2012. At the time BIH cited rising costs and falling passenger numbers.
Mr George and Graham Cole, the chairman of AgustaWestland, the Anglo-Italian helicopter company, have "jointly expressed" their optimism over a potential helicopter service.
Mr George said: "When I asked AgustaWestland last year to help with plans to re-establish the service I was encouraged by their willingness to engage. Following our [recent] meeting I am more confident."
The company's AW 189 helicopter will be used by Bristow when it takes over search and rescue in Cornwall.
AgustaWestland previously said it would offer the first helicopter off the production line at a cheap rate to encourage someone to set up a commercial service to Scilly.
John May, who runs a camping facility on St Mary's, said: "Wherever possible you have to offer the customer what they need, but you have to keep the cost as low as we can."
The Council of the Isles of Scilly said: "The council welcomes any initiative that brings an additional mode of transport to the islands. The council is not involved in discussions between commercial operators at this stage."
Ryanair said it did not comment on what it called "speculation". Flybe said it was "unfortunately unable to comment".
British International Helicopters blamed falling passenger numbers and rising costs for the end of the service to the Isles of Scilly in 2012
A helicopter link from Penzance to the Isles of Scilly could be reopened, a Cornish MP has announced.
St Ives MP Andrew George said talks were progressing well for passenger helicopters to return in 2015.
Tourism operators on Scilly said the price of a flight would have to be right for it to be successful.
Two companies approached by the BBC - EasyJet and Ryanair - refused to comment on "speculation" two airlines were interested in the venture.
The final helicopter journey to Scilly, after a 48-year link, by British International Helicopters (BIH) took place in October 2012. At the time BIH cited rising costs and falling passenger numbers.
Mr George and Graham Cole, the chairman of AgustaWestland, the Anglo-Italian helicopter company, have "jointly expressed" their optimism over a potential helicopter service.
Mr George said: "When I asked AgustaWestland last year to help with plans to re-establish the service I was encouraged by their willingness to engage. Following our [recent] meeting I am more confident."
The company's AW 189 helicopter will be used by Bristow when it takes over search and rescue in Cornwall.
AgustaWestland previously said it would offer the first helicopter off the production line at a cheap rate to encourage someone to set up a commercial service to Scilly.
John May, who runs a camping facility on St Mary's, said: "Wherever possible you have to offer the customer what they need, but you have to keep the cost as low as we can."
The Council of the Isles of Scilly said: "The council welcomes any initiative that brings an additional mode of transport to the islands. The council is not involved in discussions between commercial operators at this stage."
Ryanair said it did not comment on what it called "speculation". Flybe said it was "unfortunately unable to comment".
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 21:05, 30th July 2014 |
From the BBC:
Land's End Airport reopens after runway work
Tarmac has been laid on four runways at Land's End Airport, in Cornwall, which has been closed since 4 July.
Land's End Airport reopens after runway work
Tarmac has been laid on four runways at Land's End Airport, in Cornwall, which has been closed since 4 July.
Four runways makes it sound like Boris Island, but we are talking 07/25 and 16/34 - strictly four runways over two stretches of tarmac*. I've checked the AIP chart for the aerodrome, which has not yet been amended, and still shows all
Good news though, esp. as Mrs FT,N! has announced an intention to make a tour of inspection of the Scillies.
(*My poetic licence is in the post)
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 10:07, 29th July 2014 |
From the BBC:
Land's End Airport reopens after runway work
An airport has reopened after a multi-million pound project to improve its runways.
Tarmac has been laid on four runways at Land's End Airport, in Cornwall, which has been closed since 4 July.
It was due to reopen on 21 July but was delayed because of resurfacing problems.
The airport has seen severe disruption over the last two winters because wet weather affected its grass runways.
It was closed to flights for three months in the winter of 2012/13 when the airfield became waterlogged.
Skybus flights to the Isles of Scilly have been flying from Newquay since the airport was closed.
The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company is the sole provider of commercial flights to the islands.
In June, it said about ^1.3m from the European Regional Development Fund had been confirmed for the ^2.6m project.
An airport has reopened after a multi-million pound project to improve its runways.
Tarmac has been laid on four runways at Land's End Airport, in Cornwall, which has been closed since 4 July.
It was due to reopen on 21 July but was delayed because of resurfacing problems.
The airport has seen severe disruption over the last two winters because wet weather affected its grass runways.
It was closed to flights for three months in the winter of 2012/13 when the airfield became waterlogged.
Skybus flights to the Isles of Scilly have been flying from Newquay since the airport was closed.
The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company is the sole provider of commercial flights to the islands.
In June, it said about ^1.3m from the European Regional Development Fund had been confirmed for the ^2.6m project.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by LiskeardRich at 18:45, 4th September 2013 |
It could result in dredging of the channel at Penzance to take a bigger ferry
This bit stood out to me, as the harbour at St Mary's is the problem with no depth of water. Penzance is deeper than St Marys
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 02:19, 4th September 2013 |
From the BBC (03/09/2013):
The government has confirmed ^8m funding to improve the ferry link between the Isles of Scilly and the mainland.
The European Regional Development Fund is expected to provide the rest of the money for the ^10m scheme.
It could result in dredging of the channel at Penzance to take a bigger ferry.
Andrew George, Liberal Democrat MP for St Ives, said it was an opportunity to regenerate Penzance and St Mary's.
'Better conditions'
Local Transport Minister Norman Baker, said: "We are putting at least ^8m into this scheme which shows that the coalition government is serious about protecting the livelihood of the Isles of Scilly.
"Improved terminal buildings will provide better conditions for passengers.
"Changes to the harbours themselves will ensure new vessels can still access the port protecting this route for use by residents, freight and holiday makers."
The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC) which also operates flights to St Mary's from Land's End, has invested ^2m into upgrading facilities on board the passenger ferry Scillonian III, which sails to St Mary's from Penzance.
The European Regional Development Fund is expected to provide the rest of the money for the ^10m scheme.
It could result in dredging of the channel at Penzance to take a bigger ferry.
Andrew George, Liberal Democrat MP for St Ives, said it was an opportunity to regenerate Penzance and St Mary's.
'Better conditions'
Local Transport Minister Norman Baker, said: "We are putting at least ^8m into this scheme which shows that the coalition government is serious about protecting the livelihood of the Isles of Scilly.
"Improved terminal buildings will provide better conditions for passengers.
"Changes to the harbours themselves will ensure new vessels can still access the port protecting this route for use by residents, freight and holiday makers."
The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company (ISSC) which also operates flights to St Mary's from Land's End, has invested ^2m into upgrading facilities on board the passenger ferry Scillonian III, which sails to St Mary's from Penzance.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 12:57, 18th August 2013 |
Ah, makes sense!
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by LiskeardRich at 11:04, 18th August 2013 |
The This is Cornwall news where the part stating 2 runways will be tarmacked is a quote from the chairman of IOS steamship company, whereas no source or interview mentioned within the BBC article.
I am assuming the chairman would be providing accurate information to an interview
edit - I Re-read the BBC article and it says 800m will be done in September, the TIC article says the 2 runways will be done before the end of the year. We're not comparing like for like.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 10:17, 18th August 2013 |
Lands end is to have 2 of its 4 run ways tarmacked by the end of the year.
I am confused after reading the BBC online report, which is at variance with the This is Cornwall report.
New hard runway for Land's End airport
Land's End flights were affected by a waterlogged runway during the winter
Major improvements have been announced for two airports in Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly after bad weather caused chaos last winter.
A hard runway will be built at Land's End airport and St Mary's airport on the Isles of Scilly will also be updated.
Nearly ^7m of European funding has been earmarked for the work.
Land's End airport was closed to flights for three months last winter after it was waterlogged.
About 800 metres of hard surface, replacing the current grass landing strip, will be laid over three weekends in September.
Diana Mompoloki, the development manager for the Council of the Isles of Scilly, was "very confident that everything would be ready for the autumn".
The Policy and Resources Committee on the Isles of Scilly heard on Tuesday night that ^6.7m had been endorsed by the European Development Fund.
Wet winter victim
The majority of the cash will be spent on St Mary's airport but around ^1.2m will go towards work at Land's End.
It is half the estimated cost of hardening the runway so the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company, which owns the airport, will fund the difference.
The grass runway at Land's End was a victim of the wet winter with 521 hours of flying lost, according to the Steamship Company.
It is the sole provider of commercial flights to the islands, which have a population of 2,200.
On St Mary's more than ^2m will be spent on new hard runways to replace the grass ones, and bringing the present hard runways up to date.
About ^100,000 will go on updating navigational aids and lighting so that aircraft can land in foggier weather .
More than ^2m will be spent on improving the terminal building.
Land's End flights were affected by a waterlogged runway during the winter
Major improvements have been announced for two airports in Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly after bad weather caused chaos last winter.
A hard runway will be built at Land's End airport and St Mary's airport on the Isles of Scilly will also be updated.
Nearly ^7m of European funding has been earmarked for the work.
Land's End airport was closed to flights for three months last winter after it was waterlogged.
About 800 metres of hard surface, replacing the current grass landing strip, will be laid over three weekends in September.
Diana Mompoloki, the development manager for the Council of the Isles of Scilly, was "very confident that everything would be ready for the autumn".
The Policy and Resources Committee on the Isles of Scilly heard on Tuesday night that ^6.7m had been endorsed by the European Development Fund.
Wet winter victim
The majority of the cash will be spent on St Mary's airport but around ^1.2m will go towards work at Land's End.
It is half the estimated cost of hardening the runway so the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company, which owns the airport, will fund the difference.
The grass runway at Land's End was a victim of the wet winter with 521 hours of flying lost, according to the Steamship Company.
It is the sole provider of commercial flights to the islands, which have a population of 2,200.
On St Mary's more than ^2m will be spent on new hard runways to replace the grass ones, and bringing the present hard runways up to date.
About ^100,000 will go on updating navigational aids and lighting so that aircraft can land in foggier weather .
More than ^2m will be spent on improving the terminal building.
The TiC report mentions two runways being surfaced, but the BBC says a total of 800 metres of tarmac. A quick butcher's at the AIP shows that there are two main runways at Lands End. 07/25 is 695 metres long, 16/34 is 792 metres. If 800 metres in total is being done, that would suggest that only 16/34 is being done. 07/25 is more in line with the prevailing westerly winds, so maybe it is that runway that is being dealt with, with an extension. It would not be a good idea to part-tarmac a runway. They do exist, most notably 09/27 at St Marys, but the grass part would still be prone to waterlogging, so the object of the exercise would be defeated. It could be that the grass bit of St Marys is being done, plus 07/25 at Lands End. Twin Otters are very robust, but I wouldn't like to try a crosswind landing in some of Cornwall's winters. The shorter runway length would be more than compensated for by the better orientation.
I will look for details on the planning site - none exists so far, so it could be that an application has not been made yet.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by LiskeardRich at 20:36, 17th August 2013 |
Lands end is to have 2 of its 4 run ways tarmacked by the end of the year.
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Resurfacing-work-place-Land-s-End-Airport/story-19672871-detail/story.html#axzz2c7jg1mzj
Much-needed resurfacing work will take place on two of the four grass runways at Land^s End Airport following reports of a landmark rise in pre-tax profits.
The runways at the airport, which provide an air link to the Isles of Scilly, were often closed in winter after they became waterlogged during bouts of poor weather.
Operator, The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company, reported strong financial results after a year of record investment, which included a ^2million upgrade of its Scillonian passenger ship and a ^1million upgrade of its Land^s End terminal.
Andrew May, chairman of the company, said he expected work, which would see the runways covered with tar macadam, to take place at the end of the calendar year.
He said: "Our strong cash position means we will continue to invest in strengthening the route, including plans to resurface two of the four grass runways at Land's End Airport this calendar year.
The runways at the airport, which provide an air link to the Isles of Scilly, were often closed in winter after they became waterlogged during bouts of poor weather.
Operator, The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company, reported strong financial results after a year of record investment, which included a ^2million upgrade of its Scillonian passenger ship and a ^1million upgrade of its Land^s End terminal.
Andrew May, chairman of the company, said he expected work, which would see the runways covered with tar macadam, to take place at the end of the calendar year.
He said: "Our strong cash position means we will continue to invest in strengthening the route, including plans to resurface two of the four grass runways at Land's End Airport this calendar year.
Local Radio has reported that their profits for the last year were at a record high, despite the 3 million they have invested in upgrades last year.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by LiskeardRich at 17:34, 6th May 2013 |
Drove past Penzance heliport today, all demolished, and they have raised up the ground by around 2 foot.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 00:17, 29th April 2013 |
So there you have it children - proof that drugs do ruin airlines.
I have traced the aircraft's history from its construction in 1982. It flew first for Cathay Pacific, then between 1998 and 2001 for Virgin Atlantic. It was then seconded to Air Atlanta Icelandic, prior to a return to Virgin and a trip to Mojave for storage, in 2002. It was recommissioned and bought by European Aircharters in late 2003. They leased it to Garuda for 2 months in 2004, for Hajj flights to Mecca. After that, Southern Winds had their fun with it. It flew into Filton on 2 February 2005, for de-virginisation (yes, you can do that with a plane too) and transformation into Southern Winds colours by the then thriving Air Livery paint shop at Filton - picture link here.. This was after the pharmaceutical catastrophe alluded to by John R. The process normally takes less than 2 weeks for a 747. The airline collapsed whilst it was there, and it stood gathering dust and parking fees until 29 April 2006. It has the dubious distinction of wearing the livery of an airline for over 14 months, but never having made a flight for that company. Outdoor parking fees for a 747 at Filton, BTW, were not much more than those levied at Heathrow to park a car.
After its long period at Filton, it went to work for Transeuro under a Bermudan registration VP-BPX, based in Russia. The trail grows cold - some sources say it is now stored in Melbourne, others suggest that it was broken up at Kemble.
What I think I may have realised from my research is that few aircraft are owned by airlines - a situation not unlike Train Operating Companies leasing from the Big Three, only this is multinational. Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, Embraer et al may announce orders from airlines, but the aircraft are sold to shadowy leasing companies, the names of none of whom are well known.
Who knows? If there is a runway extension project in the Scillies similar to that at Funchal, Madeira, we may yet see this particular 747 on finals to land in the Scillies. Probably preceded by a number of pigs, in formation.
Sorry - what were we talking about?
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by John R at 23:02, 28th April 2013 |
I have read elsewhere that two of them are stored at Newquay, pending decisions.
Bizarre things happen in aviation. When I first started learning to fly at Filton, in 2005, there was a Boeing 747 with 3 engines, and weights hanging from the mounting for the fourth, parked on the jet apron. I know it had been there a while, as I had seen it en passant. I think the livery said Southern Winds. After a few lessons, I asked my instructor how long it takes to change an engine on a jumbo - the true answer, I now know, is around 5 hours. "Oh no", he said. "The engine's been taken off to stop someone shinning over the fence in the dead of night, starting up, and buggering off." The airline had gone bust, and debt attaches to the aircraft. So anyone buying it would have to settle up before taking it away. He reckoned it would end up being dismantled on site. But one day, almost a year later, I arrived for my weekly flight, and it was gone. Someone had paid a bill, the maintenance guy stuck the engine back on, the pilot filed a flight plan for Shannon, and away it went. Amazing these things can happen, but they can and do.
Bizarre things happen in aviation. When I first started learning to fly at Filton, in 2005, there was a Boeing 747 with 3 engines, and weights hanging from the mounting for the fourth, parked on the jet apron. I know it had been there a while, as I had seen it en passant. I think the livery said Southern Winds. After a few lessons, I asked my instructor how long it takes to change an engine on a jumbo - the true answer, I now know, is around 5 hours. "Oh no", he said. "The engine's been taken off to stop someone shinning over the fence in the dead of night, starting up, and buggering off." The airline had gone bust, and debt attaches to the aircraft. So anyone buying it would have to settle up before taking it away. He reckoned it would end up being dismantled on site. But one day, almost a year later, I arrived for my weekly flight, and it was gone. Someone had paid a bill, the maintenance guy stuck the engine back on, the pilot filed a flight plan for Shannon, and away it went. Amazing these things can happen, but they can and do.
From Wikipedia: By 2004, Southern Winds was a leading commercial carrier in the troubled Argentine aviation industry. That September, however, airport police in Madrid discovered 60 kilograms (130 lb) of cocaine packed in four unaccompanied suitcases aboard an arriving Southern Winds flight. The resulting scandal cost the airline its government subsidy, and ultimately resulted in the carrier's collapse. The last Southern Winds flight operated on December 5, 2005, although proposals for the airline's revival continued to surface in 2006.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 22:25, 28th April 2013 |
You would think just removing the batteries would stop anyone starting up the APU, let alone the main engines, but that is what I was told, and by more than one person working there. A wheel clamp probably wouldn't hold back 200,000 lbs of thrust, either.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 21:37, 28th April 2013 |
Presumably it wouldn't have been fueled either.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by bobm at 21:33, 28th April 2013 |
Wouldn't a wheel clamp have been easier?
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 21:31, 28th April 2013 |
I have read elsewhere that two of them are stored at Newquay, pending decisions.
Bizarre things happen in aviation. When I first started learning to fly at Filton, in 2005, there was a Boeing 747 with 3 engines, and weights hanging from the mounting for the fourth, parked on the jet apron. I know it had been there a while, as I had seen it en passant. I think the livery said Southern Winds. After a few lessons, I asked my instructor how long it takes to change an engine on a jumbo - the true answer, I now know, is around 5 hours. "Oh no", he said. "The engine's been taken off to stop someone shinning over the fence in the dead of night, starting up, and buggering off." The airline had gone bust, and debt attaches to the aircraft. So anyone buying it would have to settle up before taking it away. He reckoned it would end up being dismantled on site. But one day, almost a year later, I arrived for my weekly flight, and it was gone. Someone had paid a bill, the maintenance guy stuck the engine back on, the pilot filed a flight plan for Shannon, and away it went. Amazing these things can happen, but they can and do.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Kernow Otter at 17:57, 26th April 2013 |
The ex BIH S61 is still out and about round these parts. Going on flight paths, she is probably running out of Newquay Airport....
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by JayMac at 15:12, 26th April 2013 |
Multi-billionaire Warren Buffet:
"If a capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk back in the early 1900s, he should have shot Orville Wright. He would have saved his progeny money. But seriously, the airline business has been extraordinary. It has eaten up capital over the past century like almost no other business because people seem to keep coming back to it and putting fresh money in.
I have an 800 number now that I call if I get the urge to buy an airline stock. I call at 2 in the morning and I say: 'My name is Warren, and I'm an aeroholic.' And then they talk me down."
Unknown:
"How do you make a million dollars in aviation? Start with two million and know when to quit!"
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by broadgage at 14:53, 26th April 2013 |
I read somwhere, but can not substantiate, that passenger air travel overall has NEVER made a profit since it was invented !
Most large airports lose money on the strictly aviation side of the operation, the profits coming from retailing, car parking, and hotels.
Many smaller airports are routinely loss making, being subsidised by local or national government.
Many airlines are effectively state owned or state controlled or state subsidised, no banana republic is complete without a national airline.
Many other airlines are loss making and receive subsidies.
Many others have gone bust.
Others regularly lose money, and change hands cheaply, with the new owners hoping (usually in vain) that they will do better than the last lot.
The manufacture of aircraft tends to be subsisised "to protect high tech jobs" and also as a matter of national prestige.
Some airlines do sometimes make a profit, but overall the industry is said to be loss making.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 23:22, 25th April 2013 |
Absolutely true, TC. The engines are replaced in all aircraft at planned intervals. The airframe of a modern aircraft doesn't look much different to an older one. It is said that if you lavished the care shown to commercial aircraft on your car, it would last for a thousand years. The big changes have come in materials used. BIH's S61N's date back, in two cases out of the 5 they owned, to 1964, when oil was cheap, and efficiency was not as huge a consideration as it is now. Now, the emphasis for any new aircraft is safety, with efficiency, hence the growing use of composite materials and fly-by-wire systems that weigh so much less than the former metal rods and hydraulics used for moving control surfaces.
The engines for the former S61N weigh around 400lb with reduction gearbox, develop a useful power output of 1250hp max at a fuel consumption of 0.64 lb/hp/hr. The engines in the AW189 weigh about the same, deliver a third more power, whilst using a third less fuel. So despite the price on the forecourt, the running costs are much lower.
How you can make money by using an aircraft costing $350 million (for a Boeing 747-800) to burn expensive oil to transport passengers long distances is beyond my powers of deduction. BIH were sunk, they say, because of the judicial review regarding the sale of the heliport, which delayed matters. It doesn't sound as though they would have held on much longer if cash-flow depended on selling the base, because passenger numbers had fallen in the recession.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Thatcham Crossing at 22:45, 25th April 2013 |
FTN said:
The economics of passenger transport by air are crazy
That is probably about 4 times more true when it comes to commercial helicopter operations.
The old BIH service probably only survived as long as it did because the S61N's operated were around 40 years old and probably fully paid for many years ago. However, I expect they made up for that by being eye-wateringly expensive to maintain.
The most suitable type for any future Isles of Scilly heliops is probably the Sikorsky S92 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92
CHC operate these in the North Sea.
As an aside, FTN, my last trip in a BIH S61N was on one of my trips to the Falklands, where 2 were (and I think still are) operated under contract to the MoD.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 21:12, 25th April 2013 |
Sounds a good man to have inside, then. This needs action as well as words. The economics of passenger transport by air are crazy, with ultra-expensive assets being used on minimal profit margins, but still someone gets rich.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by LiskeardRich at 20:59, 25th April 2013 |
Andrew George has always been an MP who gets what he wants for his constituency, so I would expect this to be likely to happen now. He's been the MP since 1997, and always been a popular candidate.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 20:50, 25th April 2013 |
"Make available one of their 18 to 19 seat helicopters available..."? Rental or sale, or just plain lending? The only Agusta Westland civvy helicopter of the size is the AW189. None are yet in service, although Bristow Helicopters have ordered 11 for the private UK search and rescue service. It could be they will offer it to demonstrate it to a wider audience.
The tech data shows it to be a tasty bit of kit. It is Cat A capable - if one of the two engines fails on take-off, it can either safely get back down to the floor, or fly out, missing all obstacles by at least 35 feet. PC1 and PC2e are safety standards for offshore operations such as gas platforms. Unlike the current fixed wing aircraft, they are equipped for day or night in just about all weathers, whereas flights from both Lands End and Newquay were recently grounded by fog.
Be nice if it happens. It will need a new heliport, of course, which will open a whole new can of worms. But it is not insurmountable.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by bobm at 19:27, 25th April 2013 |
From the BBC
Talks are under way to 'resurrect helicopter link' says MP
A Cornwall MP is "in discussions" with operators to resurrect the helicopter link between Cornwall and The Isles of Scilly, he said.
St Ives Liberal Democrat MP Andrew George said he had been in talks with a helicopter firm which is "very interested" in providing a service.
British International axed its service between Penzance and Scilly in October.
Mr George said he wanted to "inject hope" into the community but said it was important to "remain cautious".
He said Yeovil based manufacturer, Augusta Westland was "very interested in making one of their 18 to 19 seater helicopters available to put a service on".
Mr George said potential operators Bond and CHC will now be approached to "look at possibilities".
He said: "Some of the significant elements of the jigsaw puzzle that need to be put together to resurrect the service are being worked on as we speak.
'Heliport site identified'
"Let's see if the Isles of Scilly and the Penzance communities get behind the idea and give it their full support and that will obviously assist in persuading other people to come on board."
Mr George said "a site in the Penzance area has been identified" for the heliport but that he could not comment further on the location.
British International stopped its year-round service linking the islands, some 28 miles (45km) south-west of Cornwall, after running into financial problems, blaming falling passenger numbers and rising costs.
Money to subsidise a helicopter link was ruled out by Transport Minister Norman Baker in October.
Mr George said withdrawal of the "lifeline service" had hit islanders, medical services and the economy.
"The winter that the islanders have experienced has perhaps opened a lot of peoples eyes as to why we need another transport provider to the Isles of Scilly," he said.
A ferry, the Scillonian, runs for only seven months a year; and the only other link, the Skybus plane service, which flies from Land's End Airport and Newquay in Cornwall, is weather-dependent. Neither service is subsidised.
A Cornwall MP is "in discussions" with operators to resurrect the helicopter link between Cornwall and The Isles of Scilly, he said.
St Ives Liberal Democrat MP Andrew George said he had been in talks with a helicopter firm which is "very interested" in providing a service.
British International axed its service between Penzance and Scilly in October.
Mr George said he wanted to "inject hope" into the community but said it was important to "remain cautious".
He said Yeovil based manufacturer, Augusta Westland was "very interested in making one of their 18 to 19 seater helicopters available to put a service on".
Mr George said potential operators Bond and CHC will now be approached to "look at possibilities".
He said: "Some of the significant elements of the jigsaw puzzle that need to be put together to resurrect the service are being worked on as we speak.
'Heliport site identified'
"Let's see if the Isles of Scilly and the Penzance communities get behind the idea and give it their full support and that will obviously assist in persuading other people to come on board."
Mr George said "a site in the Penzance area has been identified" for the heliport but that he could not comment further on the location.
British International stopped its year-round service linking the islands, some 28 miles (45km) south-west of Cornwall, after running into financial problems, blaming falling passenger numbers and rising costs.
Money to subsidise a helicopter link was ruled out by Transport Minister Norman Baker in October.
Mr George said withdrawal of the "lifeline service" had hit islanders, medical services and the economy.
"The winter that the islanders have experienced has perhaps opened a lot of peoples eyes as to why we need another transport provider to the Isles of Scilly," he said.
A ferry, the Scillonian, runs for only seven months a year; and the only other link, the Skybus plane service, which flies from Land's End Airport and Newquay in Cornwall, is weather-dependent. Neither service is subsidised.
Re: Isles of Scilly sea ferry and air services - merged posts Posted by Thatcham Crossing at 22:48, 13th April 2013 |
I've been out all day, but as I stepped out of our apartment this morning at 1030 local time, G-ISSG was just getting airborne for the UK. I watched her climb out of the Reykjavik circuit and set course towards the south-east - the tracker shows she has made it to Prestwick (just south of Glasgow) and is nightstopping there.